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[Music]

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the planet surfing masters almost surely

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have a plan and this clearly maybe

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something there beyond the realm of man

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and until you tell it eclipses every

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last cause just in time boy you think

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you know the less you really do that's

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true dr. Zaius where would we be without

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you

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[Music]

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yes

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the hijacks show

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all right higher side shatters as we

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continue to examine pockets of power in

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the human story in areas where we see

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the course of history altered by the

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will of a few well-placed people we've

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come to recognize the actions of the

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Holy Roman Empire and the overall

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campaign against magic just might take

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the cake

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of course Pope's and kings couldn't help

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but try to eradicate this natural

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technology wherever they encountered it

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because the empowerment that comes from

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direct access to the other and the

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knowledge that you're more than just a

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helpless victim of circumstance did not

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mesh well with their plan for full

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spectrum dominance and we're still

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feeling the effects today because 10

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sharees later the majority of people are

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still completely ignorant to this entire

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slice of the human experience and most

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attitudes about magical practice

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generally range from it being a bunch of

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silly useless primitive superstitions to

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it being evil dangerous and not worth

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the trouble it will bring conveniently

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these attitudes of apathy and fear still

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serve their same purpose and that

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ruthlessly fractured magical knowledge

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is still being put back together by the

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passionate few scholars and enthusiasts

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determined to restore it well today's

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guest dr. Steven Skinner has dedicated

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much of his life to this very

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restoration and is one of the leading

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authorities on classical magic and the

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grimoires of old dr. Skinner was

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educated at Sydney University graduating

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in English literature geography and

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ancient Greek philosophy and was awarded

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his PhD in classics from the University

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of Newcastle for a thesis on tracking

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magical texts through the ages he's the

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author of more than 36 books published

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in more than 20 different languages and

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among them are numerous translations and

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restorations of magical writings rituals

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and grimoires that are often reaching

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the english-speaking world for the first

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time ladies and gentlemen he's also

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responsible for introducing real Fung

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Shui to the West and wrote the first

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20th century English book on the subject

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in 1976 a man of many accomplishments

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and a true champion of the reinstatement

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of the world dr. Stephen Skinner

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welcome to the higher side

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thanks for such a nice introduction I

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try I try and thanks so much for being

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here I'm seriously in awe of what you've

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done because you've really left your

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mark on the world and expanded the

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knowledge base in this underrated area

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in ways that really can't even be

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measured and maybe to grease the wheels

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of it here could you elaborate on some

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of those accomplishments or tell people

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about some of the translations or

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restorations you're most proud of for

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those that are unfamiliar ok well for me

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when I was a kid I probably had the same

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misconceptions about magic as everybody

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else but when I started digging I

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realized that it's really a technology

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it's a series of procedures and although

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people don't normally associate

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scientific method with magic scientific

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method is simply a matter of doing an

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experiment and seeing if it comes out as

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predicted and if it does that validates

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the theory now a lot of the early Graham

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laws actually had sections in them which

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was called experimental offering the

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same sort of experiments and a

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prediction of the results and this

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fascinated me and I went back through

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the grimoires and then from them back to

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Greek magic and right back to the great

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Egyptian magicians because the great

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Egyptian magicians there was no problem

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with authority

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at least at the Romans came because most

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of the great Egyptian magicians were

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also temple priests so religion general

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belief and magic all came out of the

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same buildings the reason I spent some

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time in Egypt looking at some of these

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temples which are quite quite a good

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state of repair with the formula still

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written on the walls but my initial

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access to this formula was through the

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the Greek notes of a couple of magicians

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who lived in the 2nd or 3rd century AD

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and they were not living up frightened

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about writing down what it was that they

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did and what the results were from this

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even to making comments at the end

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you know this has been tested so many

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times and works and I thought that was a

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very direct way of looking at magic and

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then bottom you know million miles from

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class the 21st century way of looking at

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it mm-hmm so yeah so that that was my

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that was my driver and I have to say

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that although I got academic

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qualifications because I had to learn to

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read classical Greek to be able to read

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these papyri and I did go through every

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single papyri that's known that is

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connected with magic wow that was a lot

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of reading there are a number of

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translations of bits and pieces but the

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translations and somebody said I have to

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forgive me for saying this were done by

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people who didn't understand what magic

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was or they would just think well it's

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superstition so it doesn't matter how

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you translate it so there are something

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like 60 different words for the

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different procedures of magic in ancient

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Greek the modern translations translate

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all 60 words as either spell or write so

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when you read the translations you have

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no idea what it is that they're actually

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driving at so I went back and looked at

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the original Greek and figured it out

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and went through every single spell

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split them up into different categories

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and worked out what the methods were so

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I published this is a book called

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techniques of Breaker Egyptian magic

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it's not a recipe book it's not designed

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to somebody to pick it up and do magic

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because it's designed to sort out what

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was done how it was done because the

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next book will be a little bit more

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practical but that one suddenly needed

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to be done and hasn't been done by

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anybody

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and then moving along I was always

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interested in the grandmas the promisor

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the sorceress or the magician's manuals

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dating from about the 1200 right through

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to the last century and my approach has

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always been don't read the text of their

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enemies but read the books that they

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actually wrote and used it's like if you

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wanted to investigate 20th century

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physics sometime in the future you would

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read books by the physicists rather than

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people who are criticizing them great

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but it's not a very good parallel but

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they gather and I found remarkable

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similarities that the techniques were

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very similar even though the names of

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the spirits that were called would quite

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often be different and then about 13

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years ago I moved to Asia which is where

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I live now and I met up with Dallas

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Chinese magicians and with a lot of

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coaxing got around to talking to them

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about what they did and I was quite

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gobsmacked to discover that the

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techniques again were the same so I

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think we are talking about something

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quite real here because if they weren't

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the same you know people just made up

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magical gibberish every time they they

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wanted to dis magic then sure it's a

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waste of time but it was these

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techniques were all quite parallel

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that's so interesting and in terms of

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looking at magic from a scientific

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perspective I think that's really the

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approach that is most interesting to me

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because I'm always interested in how

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things work and I want to understand the

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mechanisms behind them I mean being at

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this for as long as you have can you

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tell us anything about those mechanisms

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for those who are still trying to get

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their head around how this can work ok

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well this might upset a few people and

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I'm sure there's some people who will

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contradict what I'm about to say but

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20th century magic has sort of become a

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question of visualizing and

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doing mental exercises and things and

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it's not it's nothing to do with mental

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exercises it is specific formula and it

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is to do with independent spirits angels

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whatever you like to call them and real

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magic consists in calling these entities

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constraining them binding them and

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getting to do what you ask them to do

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and they can't do everything

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it's not magic like in children's

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storybooks there are very specific

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things they can do in fact specific

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spirits have specific specialities and

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if you ask them to do something that's

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not as it were on their list then they

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just plain come to it but if you call

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the correct entity and you call him at

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the right time of day and you do the

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procedure in the correct way and you ask

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him to do something or you tell him or

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you order in to do something then nine

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times out of ten that thing will happen

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I'm still figuring out what the tenth

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time is because it doesn't always work

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so you know because I was brought up in

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a fairly Western scientific way I am

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only interested in things of work and

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how many interesting things that are

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repeatable the difficulty with mysticism

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and things like that is there not

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necessarily repeatable but I want

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something that is as repeatable as I

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don't know metallurgy or

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finding something like that something

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that you can actually nail down mm-hmm

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so when it comes to actually contacting

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spirits because there are just so many

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and like you say they all have purposes

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some are attached to different days

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different times of the day you know some

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Kaos magicians they talk about the idea

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of building your own pantheon of spirits

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when you're deciding like who to contact

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but that's a chaos magician what are

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your thoughts on that or at least

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helping people determine what spirits to

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approach early on when the list of

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possibilities can seem kind of

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overwhelming

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well I knew Pete Carroll when he used to

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come to the aluminous Club in London

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when he was working with Ray to sort of

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generate the theories of chaos magic so

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with many a long night talking about

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these things but the spirit is either

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something that you have no the spirits

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are objective if you call specific

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spirits and add them to your team as it

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were then that's a valid remark and then

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you can continue to use the same ones

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chaos magic is a little bit more about

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well I went to a generating spirits but

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it's not quite the same so how do I

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explain Gail's magic when it works well

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you know there is in the background is

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where a lot of random spirits wandering

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around and sometimes a medium for

278
00:12:02,810 --> 00:12:00,000
example will get a message from spirit

279
00:12:05,150 --> 00:12:02,820
quite often not the Uncle Sam or the

280
00:12:07,370 --> 00:12:05,160
uncle Jack the future purports to bring

281
00:12:11,420 --> 00:12:07,380
it from but it will be an external

282
00:12:13,570 --> 00:12:11,430
message so sometimes you can hit upon a

283
00:12:17,090 --> 00:12:13,580
spirit like that and then get a result

284
00:12:20,270 --> 00:12:17,100
but that's a little bit chaotic and I

285
00:12:23,660 --> 00:12:20,280
will prefer to to use the Gemara system

286
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:23,670
which is that you have a well they call

287
00:12:28,330 --> 00:12:25,770
in Chinese for the Chinese magicians

288
00:12:31,010 --> 00:12:28,340
call them registers of spirits in

289
00:12:34,490 --> 00:12:31,020
Western magic something like the curry

290
00:12:37,460 --> 00:12:34,500
Xie has 72 spirits listed together with

291
00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:37,470
their their names their Sid rules and

292
00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:39,510
all things you need to call them

293
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:42,510
so I would tend to work from an already

294
00:12:49,069 --> 00:12:45,690
extant registers birds rather than

295
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:49,079
trying to generate them mm-hmm fair

296
00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:51,810
enough and having gone through all the

297
00:12:57,980 --> 00:12:53,910
grimoires of the Western tradition are

298
00:13:00,319 --> 00:12:57,990
there systems or books of spells that

299
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:00,329
you consider to be more potent than

300
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:04,170
others yes there are this sort of direct

301
00:13:11,150 --> 00:13:07,920
line transmission of spells from the

302
00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:11,160
Greek magicians it comes through the

303
00:13:17,470 --> 00:13:14,760
thing called a hygrometer which then

304
00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:17,480
became the source of the Key of Solomon

305
00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:19,860
now by the time had reached the kisaan

306
00:13:24,139 --> 00:13:21,600
and virtually anybody interested in

307
00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:24,149
magic is head of the kid Solomon certain

308
00:13:30,199 --> 00:13:28,110
things got left out because magic was

309
00:13:33,410 --> 00:13:30,209
usually passed on an apprentice basis

310
00:13:36,110 --> 00:13:33,420
from the master who can do it to an

311
00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:36,120
apprentice and therefore said the matter

312
00:13:41,449 --> 00:13:39,240
that became oral instruction it was left

313
00:13:43,579 --> 00:13:41,459
out from the books or they just didn't

314
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:43,589
translate sections of it so if you go

315
00:13:49,939 --> 00:13:47,810
back to the hag amount here that one is

316
00:13:54,350 --> 00:13:49,949
probably more complete than most

317
00:13:56,990 --> 00:13:54,360
grimoire hmm to talk about the history a

318
00:14:01,759 --> 00:13:57,000
little bit is a Greco Egyptian about as

319
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:01,769
far back as we can go I assume yes and

320
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:05,370
I'll tell you why because Gregg Egyptian

321
00:14:11,629 --> 00:14:08,399
papyri the bulk of them were probably

322
00:14:13,730 --> 00:14:11,639
the work of one or Matt at most two

323
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:13,740
magicians and these are there working

324
00:14:19,579 --> 00:14:17,010
manuals they wrote out all the spells in

325
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:19,589
hand in ancient Greek many many

326
00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:22,079
thousands of words and they tested them

327
00:14:27,620 --> 00:14:24,959
and made comments on them now that kind

328
00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:27,630
of as it were private magicians Journal

329
00:14:34,939 --> 00:14:31,529
is quite rare if you go before the great

330
00:14:37,340 --> 00:14:34,949
Egyptian if you go BC sure there's

331
00:14:40,340 --> 00:14:37,350
there's magical stuff in bowls that was

332
00:14:42,139 --> 00:14:40,350
magical stuff in various inscriptions

333
00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:42,149
and magical stuff in the Book of the

334
00:14:45,889 --> 00:14:42,510
Dead

335
00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:45,899
but a lot of this is for the benefit of

336
00:14:51,620 --> 00:14:47,910
the Dead what they should do in the

337
00:14:54,019 --> 00:14:51,630
post-mortem life and okay if you happen

338
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:54,029
to have just passed on maybe some of

339
00:14:59,780 --> 00:14:56,490
this stuff is useful I can't tell but

340
00:15:00,970 --> 00:14:59,790
I'm on this side of the divide between

341
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:00,980
life and death

342
00:15:07,220 --> 00:15:04,170
the material in the Book of the Dead is

343
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:07,230
not particularly useful there's some

344
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:09,810
methods you can extract from it but it's

345
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:11,850
mostly concerned with what you do out in

346
00:15:18,590 --> 00:15:14,610
the afterlife and likewise a lot of the

347
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:18,600
other texts that date before in BC

348
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:22,290
period do not give the technique and are

349
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,930
not written for the purpose of recording

350
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:27,120
the method you know they'll they'll be

351
00:15:34,250 --> 00:15:29,519
written from an external point of view

352
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:34,260
mm-hmm yeah I really am interested in

353
00:15:37,490 --> 00:15:35,970
the history did you find that when

354
00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:37,500
you're looking at this do you think the

355
00:15:41,179 --> 00:15:39,600
Greeks looked at or use magic

356
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:41,189
differently than the Egyptians in any

357
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:42,930
significant way or there are different

358
00:15:49,220 --> 00:15:45,050
approaches that these two cultures took

359
00:15:51,860 --> 00:15:49,230
okay let's talk about Jewish magic for a

360
00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:51,870
few seconds sir Jews have often been

361
00:15:58,900 --> 00:15:55,230
considered to be exemplary magicians in

362
00:16:02,120 --> 00:15:58,910
practices very few Jewish magical texts

363
00:16:03,710 --> 00:16:02,130
before the ninth century this may be

364
00:16:05,210 --> 00:16:03,720
because they've been destroyed but I

365
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:05,220
think it's more like as they were not

366
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:08,250
created because as a fairly religious

367
00:16:13,460 --> 00:16:11,010
group of people I don't think magic was

368
00:16:18,199 --> 00:16:13,470
particularly popular but a lot of the

369
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,209
words in God names Archangel names and

370
00:16:25,429 --> 00:16:20,880
so forth flowed into Egyptian and Greek

371
00:16:28,009 --> 00:16:25,439
Egyptian magic so the Greeks being very

372
00:16:31,670 --> 00:16:28,019
rational which is why I love them they

373
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:31,680
think in a very logical way wrote out a

374
00:16:37,490 --> 00:16:34,560
lot of the Egyptian spells in Greek with

375
00:16:41,210 --> 00:16:37,500
comments and did it systematically and

376
00:16:44,509 --> 00:16:41,220
this the Greek Egyptian papyri are

377
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,519
obviously a Greek magician who could

378
00:16:49,550 --> 00:16:47,040
read Egyptian and who understood

379
00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:49,560
Egyptian magic writing it out for his

380
00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:51,540
own benefit and for his successors

381
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:54,470
benefit that kind of text

382
00:17:00,610 --> 00:16:57,680
is pretty rare many takes talking about

383
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:00,620
what my cushions did you know they

384
00:17:05,290 --> 00:17:03,650
joined the severed head of a goose back

385
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:05,300
onto the goose and things like that but

386
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:06,890
there's nothing about how they did it so

387
00:17:14,110 --> 00:17:10,010
these are stories not very interested in

388
00:17:15,420 --> 00:17:14,120
those so I've lots of track on your

389
00:17:17,380 --> 00:17:15,430
written questions Oh

390
00:17:20,950 --> 00:17:17,390
differences between the Greek and

391
00:17:22,930 --> 00:17:20,960
Egyptian approaches well the Egyptian

392
00:17:25,540 --> 00:17:22,940
approach was mainly concerned what you

393
00:17:27,010 --> 00:17:25,550
do in the afterlife the Greeks were very

394
00:17:30,370 --> 00:17:27,020
concerned with what you could do in this

395
00:17:34,330 --> 00:17:30,380
life so by combining the two Gregor

396
00:17:37,530 --> 00:17:34,340
Gyptian magic as magic to pitch someone

397
00:17:41,470 --> 00:17:37,540
you love magic to improve your health

398
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:41,480
magic see God face-to-face things like

399
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:44,480
that to be done in this life and these

400
00:17:50,050 --> 00:17:47,450
these techniques within passed up to the

401
00:17:53,140 --> 00:17:50,060
Muslim invasion of Egypt they were

402
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:53,150
passed up to Constantinople and they

403
00:17:58,930 --> 00:17:55,250
were used by the monks there there's a

404
00:18:03,430 --> 00:17:58,940
lot of parry about that and then finally

405
00:18:07,450 --> 00:18:03,440
when transcendence oval fell to Muslim

406
00:18:09,310 --> 00:18:07,460
invading they quickly relocated to Italy

407
00:18:12,730 --> 00:18:09,320
and it's in Italy that a lot of these

408
00:18:15,250 --> 00:18:12,740
texts were translated into Latin so I've

409
00:18:17,970 --> 00:18:15,260
been lucky to get the original Greek and

410
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:17,980
the final Latin and compare the two and

411
00:18:24,460 --> 00:18:20,510
then they continue to be magicians

412
00:18:27,070 --> 00:18:24,470
handbooks right through into the 17th

413
00:18:29,790 --> 00:18:27,080
and 18th century there at that point

414
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:29,800
they began to be more romantic and the

415
00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:33,050
practical content was rather diluted by

416
00:18:38,530 --> 00:18:37,280
the more romantic approach that's kind

417
00:18:39,940 --> 00:18:38,540
of a random question but you mentioned

418
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:39,950
the book of the Dead and I'm kind of

419
00:18:44,620 --> 00:18:42,530
curious because so many cultures they

420
00:18:47,260 --> 00:18:44,630
have different funeral rites and burial

421
00:18:48,940 --> 00:18:47,270
practices being someone who puts stock

422
00:18:51,580 --> 00:18:48,950
and reincarnation do you think the

423
00:18:53,770 --> 00:18:51,590
different practices might have an effect

424
00:18:57,610 --> 00:18:53,780
on reincarnation or the post death

425
00:19:00,370 --> 00:18:57,620
experience okay well not having had a

426
00:19:03,070 --> 00:19:00,380
post death experience at least not one I

427
00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:03,080
can remember my comments are purely on

428
00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:05,320
the basis of observation

429
00:19:12,180 --> 00:19:08,470
Egyptians mummified the bodies of their

430
00:19:14,460 --> 00:19:12,190
dead royalty particularly and as far as

431
00:19:18,090 --> 00:19:14,470
I can gather the purpose was so they

432
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:18,100
wouldn't be reincarnated by making them

433
00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:21,760
the body unable to decay the person

434
00:19:27,540 --> 00:19:24,550
would then be allowed to stay in me in

435
00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:27,550
the summer lands in the Amenti having a

436
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:31,390
good time fishing where you know playing

437
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:34,090
lutes whatever the Egyptian residents to

438
00:19:40,370 --> 00:19:37,360
life at least that that's my take on why

439
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:40,380
they mummified on the other hand Hindus

440
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:43,210
almost immediately burn the body and

441
00:19:50,130 --> 00:19:47,200
that I am sure forces our spirit onto

442
00:19:53,010 --> 00:19:50,140
the next incarnation they will have a

443
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:53,020
couple of weeks maybe as much as 40 days

444
00:19:57,900 --> 00:19:55,930
to hang around and then then there for

445
00:20:00,620 --> 00:19:57,910
some of the next Carnation incarnation

446
00:20:04,350 --> 00:20:00,630
now I think that's a difference in

447
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:04,360
worldview that hinders thought that they

448
00:20:09,630 --> 00:20:06,480
wanted to get on with it is aware

449
00:20:11,550 --> 00:20:09,640
Egyptians for known and I think we will

450
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:11,560
learn stick with the thumb time in the

451
00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:13,810
in the afterlife before we have to come

452
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:17,440
to this earth but as I say this is my

453
00:20:22,050 --> 00:20:19,510
conclusions rather than practical

454
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:22,060
experience all right I mean that is

455
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:23,710
interesting I figure there had to be

456
00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:26,110
some rhyme and reason to why they're

457
00:20:31,290 --> 00:20:27,760
doing these things and it might have

458
00:20:33,540 --> 00:20:31,300
some kind of effect but we'll just have

459
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:33,550
to wait and see and with practicing

460
00:20:37,530 --> 00:20:35,110
magicians that I've talked to you there

461
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:37,540
seems to be a fairly common pattern of

462
00:20:41,970 --> 00:20:40,000
getting a big dramatic result early on

463
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:41,980
and then having trouble getting back to

464
00:20:45,420 --> 00:20:43,510
that level for a while before the

465
00:20:47,940 --> 00:20:45,430
results eventually become more

466
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:47,950
consistent did you find yourself in a

467
00:20:52,770 --> 00:20:49,570
similar pattern to that or maybe could

468
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:52,780
you tell us about some powerful results

469
00:20:59,100 --> 00:20:55,210
in your early practice that kind of blew

470
00:21:02,100 --> 00:20:59,110
the doors off well I was lucky to have

471
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:02,110
had a good physical manifestation in my

472
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:05,050
late teens as a result of working with a

473
00:21:11,820 --> 00:21:09,130
grecian and I managed to bind that

474
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:11,830
spirit and so from then on I had the

475
00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:14,290
help of that spirit to bind other

476
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:17,260
spirits so no I hadn't experienced a

477
00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:18,690
drop off in the

478
00:21:27,230 --> 00:21:23,760
just wow you are lucky so you know

479
00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:27,240
talking about magic being scientific and

480
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:29,790
repeatable if done correctly what are

481
00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:31,890
some of the most common errors or

482
00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:34,590
important things that get missed in

483
00:21:41,710 --> 00:21:36,710
terms of doing it right that hurt that

484
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:41,720
replicability okay that's easy to answer

485
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:44,130
doing practical magic you need to

486
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:46,170
consider several important things one is

487
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:47,850
you actually need protection from the

488
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,090
spirit these people who attempt to call

489
00:21:56,570 --> 00:21:53,280
spirits without any protection are

490
00:21:59,450 --> 00:21:56,580
really playing with fire spirits and I

491
00:22:04,100 --> 00:21:59,460
won't necessarily include angels and not

492
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:04,110
necessarily pro human beings so in great

493
00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:06,960
Egyptian practice and in the end evil

494
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:08,190
practice of the grimoires

495
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:10,770
it is common to draw and consecrate a

496
00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:12,930
circle on the floor around the operator

497
00:22:19,790 --> 00:22:16,350
and then to place an area and a spirit

498
00:22:22,790 --> 00:22:19,800
loci or triangle into which the spirit

499
00:22:26,540 --> 00:22:22,800
needs to be forced to manifest if that's

500
00:22:29,180 --> 00:22:26,550
not done a the spirit will either not

501
00:22:31,070 --> 00:22:29,190
come or come and lie and will not do

502
00:22:34,490 --> 00:22:31,080
what you tell it to do so that's one

503
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:34,500
thing second thing is spirits cannot

504
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:37,440
read your mind which is a is a great

505
00:22:43,370 --> 00:22:41,370
advantage but they are they are

506
00:22:47,870 --> 00:22:43,380
sensitive to certain things and one of

507
00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:47,880
those is smell so every magical ritual

508
00:22:52,820 --> 00:22:51,270
has the burning of incense we Goga

509
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:52,830
martha's thought it was so you could

510
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,290
manifest the spirit in the incense other

511
00:23:00,770 --> 00:22:57,600
people so it could cloud the mind at the

512
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:00,780
operator in fact it establishes an

513
00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:03,210
atmosphere that the spirit can manifest

514
00:23:09,170 --> 00:23:06,750
into if the surface melzar nice at the

515
00:23:11,090 --> 00:23:09,180
end of the ritual you reverse it and

516
00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:11,100
burn something which is very unpleasant

517
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:14,460
and this helps to send whisper back from

518
00:23:21,020 --> 00:23:17,760
whence it came but because the spirits

519
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:21,030
have got such sensitive smellivision if

520
00:23:25,910 --> 00:23:22,410
you like

521
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:25,920
you need to fast beforehand so that the

522
00:23:32,030 --> 00:23:29,250
typical sweat smells of human beings are

523
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:32,040
not there in the ritual you also need

524
00:23:37,340 --> 00:23:34,710
many of the grand masti you need to barf

525
00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:37,350
and purify yourself beforehand that's a

526
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:38,910
really practical thing that is not a

527
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:41,490
spiritual thing it is to remove the

528
00:23:47,150 --> 00:23:43,830
amount of smell the Egyptians said

529
00:23:49,670 --> 00:23:47,160
should not eat garlic beforehand when I

530
00:23:52,610 --> 00:23:49,680
read that bit I figured now what is it

531
00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:52,620
that is common between algún should not

532
00:24:00,200 --> 00:23:55,110
eat fish what's common between those two

533
00:24:02,090 --> 00:24:00,210
they smell and so if you you know if

534
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:02,100
you've recently been smoking or you

535
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:04,410
you've eaten garlic or you've eaten fish

536
00:24:10,910 --> 00:24:08,000
then this tends to drive the spirit away

537
00:24:13,450 --> 00:24:10,920
then the other thing is you need to do

538
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:13,460
it away from the center of the city

539
00:24:19,700 --> 00:24:17,250
although if you got the techniques down

540
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:19,710
pat can be done in the center of the

541
00:24:25,810 --> 00:24:22,650
city but it's much better than out where

542
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:25,820
you have no distractions in some ways

543
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:28,650
suppose that you haven't bound a little

544
00:24:34,850 --> 00:24:31,200
bit like like wild animals yes you can

545
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:34,860
coax that come but you can't coax them

546
00:24:39,230 --> 00:24:37,410
to come at this heavy traffic thundering

547
00:24:41,870 --> 00:24:39,240
past the door and people screaming down

548
00:24:46,340 --> 00:24:41,880
the street at least that is hard work

549
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:46,350
then so I usually the to it out in the

550
00:24:50,420 --> 00:24:49,170
open somewhere at one stage I was lucky

551
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:50,430
enough that were properly in France

552
00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:52,650
which is well secluded from everywhere

553
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:52,950
else

554
00:24:59,930 --> 00:24:56,370
I had a cleared area or amongst trees

555
00:25:02,060 --> 00:24:59,940
that was quite useful if done inside the

556
00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:02,070
city then quite often it will either be

557
00:25:10,430 --> 00:25:06,830
a cellar or possibly a very high balcony

558
00:25:12,890 --> 00:25:10,440
but anyway that that's what I found in

559
00:25:16,670 --> 00:25:12,900
practical experience that spirits are

560
00:25:18,770 --> 00:25:16,680
sensitive there bit shy and you need to

561
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:18,780
encourage them to come and then you need

562
00:25:23,390 --> 00:25:21,510
to buy that's so interesting I did not

563
00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:23,400
know smell was such a factor I mean I

564
00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:25,860
know saying the right words and facing

565
00:25:29,690 --> 00:25:27,510
the right direction and having a circle

566
00:25:31,910 --> 00:25:29,700
of protection are important when

567
00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:31,920
interacting with spirits but I struggle

568
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:34,740
to rectify how something like a chalk

569
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:36,090
circle could have such

570
00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:38,640
effect on a spirit or how facing north

571
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:40,260
instead of East could really be such a

572
00:25:46,250 --> 00:25:43,200
factor in making contact do we know it

573
00:25:48,409 --> 00:25:46,260
makes these things work even you know I

574
00:25:50,419 --> 00:25:48,419
can tell you what that is if you just

575
00:25:54,289 --> 00:25:50,429
draw a choke circle and will have no

576
00:25:58,430 --> 00:25:54,299
effect what you need to do is then take

577
00:26:01,669 --> 00:25:58,440
a very sharp sword or dagger and cut the

578
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:01,679
line around there now when you do that a

579
00:26:07,399 --> 00:26:04,710
trace is left in the astral of options

580
00:26:10,399 --> 00:26:07,409
and sharpness as it were and spirits

581
00:26:12,590 --> 00:26:10,409
will not comfortably cross that line if

582
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:12,600
it's just chalk that makes no difference

583
00:26:16,730 --> 00:26:15,600
to them but the line must be cut with a

584
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:16,740
sharp instrument

585
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:19,200
it doesn't hurt also to then say

586
00:26:24,919 --> 00:26:21,450
appropriate consecration airy words but

587
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:24,929
you know Medicus is in a lot of funny

588
00:26:30,769 --> 00:26:28,890
ways very physical so that that's the

589
00:26:33,649 --> 00:26:30,779
that's the circle what's the other thing

590
00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:33,659
you mentioned Oh facing the right

591
00:26:39,909 --> 00:26:34,740
cardinal direction

592
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:39,919
ah okay that that is important because

593
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:42,330
spirits do come from different

594
00:26:47,210 --> 00:26:44,610
directions if you look at some of the

595
00:26:49,930 --> 00:26:47,220
grimoire that they're very specific one

596
00:26:53,299 --> 00:26:49,940
the Theo jeogori she actually has a

597
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:53,309
32-point compass rose at twenty Bay at

598
00:26:57,260 --> 00:26:56,010
the grimoire indicating which spirit

599
00:27:00,169 --> 00:26:57,270
comes from which direction

600
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:00,179
Chinese magicians also have the same

601
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:03,090
thing except they had 28 points and they

602
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:05,490
very specifically called from one of

603
00:27:11,630 --> 00:27:07,679
eight directions or even one of 28

604
00:27:13,549 --> 00:27:11,640
directions now at a very basic level if

605
00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:13,559
you call the spirit and it comes from

606
00:27:19,330 --> 00:27:15,480
behind you and you're standing there

607
00:27:21,220 --> 00:27:19,340
talking and you've got your back to it

608
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:21,230
the spirit will actually be offended

609
00:27:26,980 --> 00:27:24,770
they will not be cooperative so it is

610
00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:26,990
always good to face the direction from

611
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:29,510
which you expect it to come obviously

612
00:27:33,940 --> 00:27:31,490
sometimes you may get the direction

613
00:27:35,410 --> 00:27:33,950
wrong or a little bit off but if you're

614
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:35,420
actually standing with your back turd

615
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:37,850
when it arrives and you don't know this

616
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:40,610
it's appeared then the next steps and

617
00:27:46,770 --> 00:27:43,760
the ritual you won't take and you wasted

618
00:27:48,820 --> 00:27:46,780
the evening so a direction is important

619
00:27:51,940 --> 00:27:48,830
the other thing that's important is

620
00:27:54,340 --> 00:27:51,950
timing as you rightly mentioned if you

621
00:27:56,830 --> 00:27:54,350
want spirits of the moon Monday is a

622
00:28:00,700 --> 00:27:56,840
much better time to call them safe

623
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:00,710
Saturday if you once Prince the moon the

624
00:28:06,730 --> 00:28:04,490
first hour of Monday or the 15,000 unday

625
00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:06,740
but it's a good time because then you

626
00:28:11,410 --> 00:28:08,830
built the hour right as well as the day

627
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:11,420
and the reason for this is that in the

628
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:14,090
spirit world there are tides and there

629
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:15,890
are certain times when these spirits are

630
00:28:21,490 --> 00:28:18,410
strong enough to manifest and certain

631
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:21,500
times when they're not if you call the

632
00:28:26,980 --> 00:28:23,930
spirit when they're not in a strong

633
00:28:29,620 --> 00:28:26,990
position they can't come because for

634
00:28:32,350 --> 00:28:29,630
them coming to the physical plane is

635
00:28:35,650 --> 00:28:32,360
very difficult it's like if you and I

636
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:35,660
conducted this interview underwater sure

637
00:28:39,250 --> 00:28:37,610
was breathing equipment it would be okay

638
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:39,260
but we just have to hold our breath and

639
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:40,850
you stick you late it would be very

640
00:28:44,830 --> 00:28:42,770
difficult and so for spirits coming to

641
00:28:47,770 --> 00:28:44,840
the physical world until they get used

642
00:28:50,170 --> 00:28:47,780
to it is very difficult so you need to

643
00:28:52,210 --> 00:28:50,180
give them you need to go to the cent

644
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:52,220
amount of respect not turning your back

645
00:28:56,170 --> 00:28:53,810
on them you need to give them an

646
00:28:58,810 --> 00:28:56,180
atmosphere that is pleasant to them and

647
00:29:01,150 --> 00:28:58,820
by that immediately the incense that's

648
00:29:04,150 --> 00:29:01,160
pleasant to them you need to coax them

649
00:29:05,950 --> 00:29:04,160
and if you do all these things you may

650
00:29:07,770 --> 00:29:05,960
have to try two or three times but you

651
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:07,780
need to do it at the right time and

652
00:29:13,690 --> 00:29:10,930
preferably the right hour and the

653
00:29:18,010 --> 00:29:13,700
restriction on time and out really go

654
00:29:20,350 --> 00:29:18,020
back to 2000 years ago their tables in

655
00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:20,360
the Greek papyri for the right times to

656
00:29:26,980 --> 00:29:23,600
call particular spirits I reduced them

657
00:29:29,260 --> 00:29:26,990
in my book and I can tell you that it

658
00:29:32,170 --> 00:29:29,270
makes all the difference if you ignore

659
00:29:33,740 --> 00:29:32,180
the right charm then the spirit will

660
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:33,750
probably ignore you

661
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:37,770
hmm so this also explains a number of

662
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:41,010
failures people thinking that they can

663
00:29:45,620 --> 00:29:42,810
just you know get up on a Saturday night

664
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:45,630
and call a spirit of mercury and then

665
00:29:51,950 --> 00:29:48,410
our exciter it's not going to work

666
00:29:54,830 --> 00:29:51,960
that's so interesting I mean I'm curious

667
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:54,840
how this magical practice that you've

668
00:30:00,590 --> 00:29:57,360
had for quite some time this helped you

669
00:30:01,910 --> 00:30:00,600
construct a more accurate model for

670
00:30:05,390 --> 00:30:01,920
reality I mean these little magical

671
00:30:07,610 --> 00:30:05,400
techniques and kind of rules are sort of

672
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:07,620
clues into the infrastructure we find

673
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:11,210
ourselves in aren't they yeah indeed

674
00:30:16,730 --> 00:30:13,890
what was it shakes this famous remark

675
00:30:19,370 --> 00:30:16,740
but there's more in this world than you

676
00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:19,380
and I think and that's a totally

677
00:30:26,540 --> 00:30:23,100
misquoted phrase but yes that there is a

678
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:26,550
hierarchy outside the physical plane it

679
00:30:31,670 --> 00:30:28,290
doesn't often engage with a physical

680
00:30:33,770 --> 00:30:31,680
plane but when it does it can be quite

681
00:30:36,590 --> 00:30:33,780
powerful and if you have called the

682
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:36,600
spirit which can do a specific thing and

683
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:38,130
that's what you're a sitter and you've

684
00:30:43,670 --> 00:30:40,410
given me a good reason to do so nine

685
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:43,680
times out of 10 it will do so and so I

686
00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:46,880
am convinced that this hierarchy is real

687
00:30:54,260 --> 00:30:49,860
and so there's no reason to disbelieve

688
00:30:56,330 --> 00:30:54,270
that angles and various levels that you

689
00:30:59,620 --> 00:30:56,340
might read about in the Kabbalah also

690
00:31:02,930 --> 00:30:59,630
exist and that makes the physical world

691
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:02,940
just the more solid the more concrete

692
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:05,610
bit at the bottom of a long ladder of

693
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:09,120
various different entities and some my

694
00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:10,640
friends will say this is a very medieval

695
00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:13,710
view of the world they've kind of

696
00:31:18,590 --> 00:31:16,470
faintly amusing but if you've

697
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:18,600
experienced it you

698
00:31:25,370 --> 00:31:22,320
you have no problem with that okay yeah

699
00:31:27,860 --> 00:31:25,380
man so something else that I've heard

700
00:31:29,810 --> 00:31:27,870
you say in a previous talk is that magic

701
00:31:31,549 --> 00:31:29,820
is useless if you just sit and read

702
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:31,559
about it it's fascinating and it's

703
00:31:35,180 --> 00:31:33,360
interesting but it is a practice it's

704
00:31:38,029 --> 00:31:35,190
the technology and the whole point is to

705
00:31:39,650 --> 00:31:38,039
use it and I love how direct you are

706
00:31:41,930 --> 00:31:39,660
about that I think a lot of this

707
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:41,940
audience is probably in that place where

708
00:31:46,190 --> 00:31:44,730
we know more about magic than the

709
00:31:48,770 --> 00:31:46,200
average person at least on an

710
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:48,780
intellectual basis but the material can

711
00:31:53,419 --> 00:31:52,049
still seem so vast and dense that we

712
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:53,429
might not feel comfortable actually

713
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:55,890
starting to use it do you have advice

714
00:31:59,570 --> 00:31:57,330
for people who might be right at that

715
00:32:01,730 --> 00:31:59,580
point is there a go-to ritual or

716
00:32:06,020 --> 00:32:01,740
grimoire you recommend people use to get

717
00:32:08,659 --> 00:32:06,030
their feet wet well it is very easy to

718
00:32:10,610 --> 00:32:08,669
become an armchair magician and compare

719
00:32:12,350 --> 00:32:10,620
grim laws and to read commentaries and

720
00:32:14,779 --> 00:32:12,360
all that sort of thing and there are

721
00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:14,789
indeed a lot of people out there but

722
00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:17,220
magic is actually hard work it's not

723
00:32:23,810 --> 00:32:19,260
surprising a lot of people feel that way

724
00:32:26,750 --> 00:32:23,820
as we go to grimoire no magic is quite

725
00:32:29,060 --> 00:32:26,760
difficult you need a number of things

726
00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:29,070
that ceremony or magic you need to

727
00:32:33,409 --> 00:32:31,950
prepare implements beforehand if you're

728
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,419
a chemist and you want to do an

729
00:32:38,090 --> 00:32:36,000
experiment you need to get your Bunsen

730
00:32:41,270 --> 00:32:38,100
burner you need to figure out how to use

731
00:32:44,450 --> 00:32:41,280
it you need to get test tubes and things

732
00:32:47,299 --> 00:32:44,460
to contain what you're working on so in

733
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:47,309
magic you need to get the implements

734
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:49,679
that are needed such as the sharp knife

735
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:52,650
to draw the circle otherwise you just a

736
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:54,000
choke soak and it's not going to work

737
00:32:59,630 --> 00:32:56,610
you need to get the most appropriate

738
00:33:01,520 --> 00:32:59,640
incense for what your plans do and you

739
00:33:03,409 --> 00:33:01,530
need to get them ready on a particular

740
00:33:05,950 --> 00:33:03,419
day and on that particular day you need

741
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:05,960
to prepare yourself by ritually

742
00:33:10,909 --> 00:33:08,370
dispersion or preferably bathing

743
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:10,919
beforehand and most people are not

744
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:14,159
prepared to do that or they take the

745
00:33:21,049 --> 00:33:17,039
view I can just do this in my lunch room

746
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:21,059
when the kids have gone to bed and the

747
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:24,000
spirits are not really that comfortable

748
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:27,570
in all the vibrations and smells and

749
00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:30,240
things that you had in your laundry room

750
00:33:34,879 --> 00:33:31,980
television going in the corner at the

751
00:33:39,019 --> 00:33:34,889
same time this is not the place to do it

752
00:33:41,989 --> 00:33:39,029
so a chemist wouldn't do potentially

753
00:33:43,609 --> 00:33:41,999
explosive operations or probably some

754
00:33:45,049 --> 00:33:43,619
people have done it on the kitchen table

755
00:33:48,889 --> 00:33:45,059
you wouldn't do it in your lounge room

756
00:33:51,499 --> 00:33:48,899
you need to have separated space to work

757
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:51,509
and as I've said it preferably needs to

758
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:54,570
be lower away away from human beings but

759
00:33:59,450 --> 00:33:56,970
if you can do it with a bit of extra

760
00:34:01,519 --> 00:33:59,460
effort so people don't set this up

761
00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:01,529
beforehand and then they wonder why it

762
00:34:06,350 --> 00:34:02,369
doesn't work

763
00:34:09,799 --> 00:34:06,360
you know when quaintness of mine is in a

764
00:34:11,859 --> 00:34:09,809
cellar and the syllabus absolutely dirty

765
00:34:14,839 --> 00:34:11,869
from coal and god knows what else and

766
00:34:17,180 --> 00:34:14,849
the spirits just won't come they do not

767
00:34:19,849 --> 00:34:17,190
want to go to that particular space

768
00:34:21,980 --> 00:34:19,859
it is very strange that people think of

769
00:34:24,970 --> 00:34:21,990
well if we talk about black magic the

770
00:34:28,399 --> 00:34:24,980
spirits of evil and dark and whatever

771
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:28,409
actually spirits and spirits like a very

772
00:34:34,549 --> 00:34:31,919
pure and holy environment and if they

773
00:34:37,399 --> 00:34:34,559
don't get it they're not coming unless

774
00:34:39,829 --> 00:34:37,409
you unless you come to them but that's

775
00:34:41,690 --> 00:34:39,839
getting into other subjects yeah we

776
00:34:45,260 --> 00:34:41,700
won't go into that you've got to offer

777
00:34:47,809 --> 00:34:45,270
them a conducive space and that space

778
00:34:50,089 --> 00:34:47,819
shouldn't be used for something else it

779
00:34:52,849 --> 00:34:50,099
should be just use magic so most people

780
00:34:55,789 --> 00:34:52,859
will say well I've got a half and I

781
00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:55,799
don't have a spare room for that and I

782
00:35:02,510 --> 00:34:58,290
can't be bothered driving to the country

783
00:35:04,579 --> 00:35:02,520
and finding a quiet grove of trees quite

784
00:35:07,460 --> 00:35:04,589
difficult in some countries so they

785
00:35:10,309 --> 00:35:07,470
don't do it they sit down and read about

786
00:35:13,309 --> 00:35:10,319
it and you know that's commendable too

787
00:35:15,380 --> 00:35:13,319
because 50 years ago there weren't a lot

788
00:35:18,109 --> 00:35:15,390
of people reading about these things or

789
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,119
we haven't taken them seriously so there

790
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:20,640
has been a definite shift I have to

791
00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:22,530
agree that even Harry Potter's helped in

792
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:23,510
this shift

793
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:26,880
yeah I guess it all helps what are your

794
00:35:31,460 --> 00:35:29,280
thoughts on starting with an ancestor

795
00:35:32,780 --> 00:35:31,470
altar or getting the best results with

796
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:32,790
that approach not something you'd

797
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:35,440
recommend okay

798
00:35:41,210 --> 00:35:38,890
smoothly results there are elemental

799
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:41,220
spirits there are spirits from the

800
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:45,280
grimoire and you can also call ancestral

801
00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:48,880
spirits so in a way that is probably a

802
00:35:52,859 --> 00:35:51,040
safer procedure because your ancestors

803
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:52,869
as long as they realize that they are

804
00:35:59,579 --> 00:35:56,160
your ancestors not likely to be harmful

805
00:36:02,579 --> 00:35:59,589
and indeed mediums sometimes called

806
00:36:05,250 --> 00:36:02,589
spirits who will then help them they

807
00:36:07,290 --> 00:36:05,260
would usually refer to them as what's

808
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:07,300
solution to an argument at the term but

809
00:36:13,309 --> 00:36:10,450
anyway yes an ancestral is not a bad way

810
00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:13,319
to start but it's not the only thing and

811
00:36:19,020 --> 00:36:16,300
one of the things that I often say is

812
00:36:20,910 --> 00:36:19,030
that actually dead human beings don't

813
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:20,920
know very much more than live human

814
00:36:28,650 --> 00:36:25,200
beings I believe that so if you want

815
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:28,660
knowledge which is outside of the usual

816
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:31,930
that you can't find on Wikipedia or in

817
00:36:39,660 --> 00:36:35,650
your grandfather's chest then you need

818
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:39,670
to talk to nonhumans Birds mmm fair

819
00:36:43,950 --> 00:36:42,250
enough and to get back to the history a

820
00:36:46,319 --> 00:36:43,960
little bit like I mentioned a lot of

821
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:46,329
guests we've had they do magic that

822
00:36:51,180 --> 00:36:48,880
maybe is more in the chaos realm or

823
00:36:53,220 --> 00:36:51,190
they've invented their own modalities

824
00:36:55,020 --> 00:36:53,230
but to have someone here who's so

825
00:36:56,579 --> 00:36:55,030
knowledgeable in classical magic I'm

826
00:36:59,609 --> 00:36:56,589
curious if maybe you can shed some light

827
00:37:01,290 --> 00:36:59,619
on what a magical life was like before

828
00:37:04,140 --> 00:37:01,300
the suppression is there any way to

829
00:37:06,809 --> 00:37:04,150
really restore that picture well we can

830
00:37:09,780 --> 00:37:06,819
restore the picture okay let's let's

831
00:37:13,980 --> 00:37:09,790
whip back to ancient Egypt the priests

832
00:37:15,660 --> 00:37:13,990
did magic they did it as a trade and so

833
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:15,670
if one of the villagers came and said

834
00:37:19,020 --> 00:37:17,290
they they wanted an amulet to protect

835
00:37:20,670 --> 00:37:19,030
them against sickness or they're going

836
00:37:22,740 --> 00:37:20,680
to war and they wanted an amulet to

837
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:22,750
protect them against being shot by

838
00:37:28,099 --> 00:37:25,089
arrows then the priests would do that

839
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:28,109
there would be no condemnation of that

840
00:37:34,380 --> 00:37:32,079
when the Romans took over Egypt from the

841
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:34,390
Greeks they were a little bit worried

842
00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:38,050
about magicians being used to either

843
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:41,700
protect or cause death Metra

844
00:37:46,849 --> 00:37:44,730
and so several clans they banded with

845
00:37:50,420 --> 00:37:46,859
them when Christians in the fourth

846
00:37:53,839 --> 00:37:50,430
century flooded into Egypt or whatever

847
00:37:59,359 --> 00:37:53,849
happened and there were definite Roman

848
00:38:02,270 --> 00:37:59,369
laws against magic then magic and pagan

849
00:38:04,789 --> 00:38:02,280
religion was sort of lumped together so

850
00:38:07,730 --> 00:38:04,799
while the church was trying to suppress

851
00:38:11,299 --> 00:38:07,740
the worship of an abyss or worship of

852
00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:11,309
Isis their procedure was to treat it as

853
00:38:18,380 --> 00:38:14,910
a heresy and persecute people and

854
00:38:21,470 --> 00:38:18,390
Christian persecution the monks started

855
00:38:24,799 --> 00:38:21,480
it in Alexandria and I think 397 or

856
00:38:28,089 --> 00:38:24,809
something where they destroyed one of

857
00:38:30,770 --> 00:38:28,099
the major temples in Alexandria and

858
00:38:34,660 --> 00:38:30,780
destroyed many of the Priory in the

859
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:34,670
library with the view that if it wasn't

860
00:38:39,859 --> 00:38:37,170
sanctioned by the Christian Church then

861
00:38:42,410 --> 00:38:39,869
didn't exist we didn't need to exist and

862
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:42,420
then then this was followed up when the

863
00:38:50,070 --> 00:38:46,010
Muslim invasion happened in 660

864
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:50,080
the guy that conquered Alexandria found

865
00:38:56,770 --> 00:38:53,510
the huge Library of Alexandria with and

866
00:38:59,770 --> 00:38:56,780
there's many many guesses but 700,000

867
00:39:04,260 --> 00:38:59,780
priori rolls of whatever the numbers are

868
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:04,270
probably wildly wrong and one of the

869
00:39:10,810 --> 00:39:06,530
Christian monks said what he can do this

870
00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:10,820
so he wrote back to his boss in Babylon

871
00:39:16,060 --> 00:39:13,310
and said what am I supposed to do with

872
00:39:16,690 --> 00:39:16,070
all these papyri and the answer came

873
00:39:20,890 --> 00:39:16,700
back

874
00:39:24,190 --> 00:39:20,900
if the papyri conform to what you can

875
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:24,200
find in the Koran then there's no point

876
00:39:30,670 --> 00:39:28,160
so destroy them if the papyri contradict

877
00:39:31,620 --> 00:39:30,680
what is found in the Koran then you

878
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:31,630
should destroy it

879
00:39:38,590 --> 00:39:35,810
so you fed the bake houses of Alexandria

880
00:39:41,610 --> 00:39:38,600
for six months I mean wall lake houses

881
00:39:45,630 --> 00:39:41,620
with papyri so people cook their food on

882
00:39:49,090 --> 00:39:45,640
the collected wisdom of the Greek world

883
00:39:53,410 --> 00:39:49,100
Wow which included things like you know

884
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:53,420
geometry who the Greeks did prior to the

885
00:40:00,160 --> 00:39:56,690
Christian era which has survived up to

886
00:40:02,380 --> 00:40:00,170
today but no thanks to either the

887
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:02,390
Christians of the Muslims in destroying

888
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:06,530
the text and then of course in many evil

889
00:40:12,580 --> 00:40:10,310
Europe or infecting in Constantinople it

890
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:12,590
was quite often the monks who kept up

891
00:40:19,180 --> 00:40:15,050
the practice of magic some of them were

892
00:40:21,460 --> 00:40:19,190
persecuted for it one of the common ways

893
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:21,470
of punishing somebody was to take their

894
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:23,930
eyeballs out which meant that they

895
00:40:28,420 --> 00:40:25,130
couldn't see what they were doing but at

896
00:40:30,900 --> 00:40:28,430
least they didn't kill them and so there

897
00:40:34,330 --> 00:40:30,910
were various attempts to suppress magic

898
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:34,340
one because it threatened the current

899
00:40:39,340 --> 00:40:37,010
rulers because with magic you can do

900
00:40:42,130 --> 00:40:39,350
things which might have resulted in a

901
00:40:45,370 --> 00:40:42,140
change of them but what's the word the

902
00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:45,380
Americans use in a regime change yeah

903
00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:50,750
and also a sentiment of fear that these

904
00:40:55,010 --> 00:40:52,670
guys got an advantage here and we don't

905
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:55,020
really want that to be so

906
00:41:00,890 --> 00:40:58,410
and the heads of the church also didn't

907
00:41:02,330 --> 00:41:00,900
want there if they were not similarly

908
00:41:05,420 --> 00:41:02,340
skilled and a couple of popes were

909
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:05,430
skilled in magic then it's better to

910
00:41:09,950 --> 00:41:07,920
just get rid of it and while you're

911
00:41:12,430 --> 00:41:09,960
burning the manuscripts you also burn

912
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:12,440
some of the practitioners as well

913
00:41:18,050 --> 00:41:15,570
fortunately quite a few of the

914
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:18,060
practitioners of so called Leonard magic

915
00:41:23,300 --> 00:41:20,640
people actually use the broom ARS escape

916
00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:23,310
the fires but a lot of the manuscripts

917
00:41:29,300 --> 00:41:25,710
are burned and so what we have in the

918
00:41:31,010 --> 00:41:29,310
West now is a fragmented set of

919
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:31,020
information about magic and one of the

920
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:33,690
things that I found very useful in Asia

921
00:41:40,940 --> 00:41:36,720
was that I was able to see what the

922
00:41:44,180 --> 00:41:40,950
Chinese practice was and where some item

923
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:44,190
was used or done which is missing from

924
00:41:48,740 --> 00:41:46,650
Western magic I looked at the parallel

925
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:48,750
made the adjustment to the Western

926
00:41:54,470 --> 00:41:51,450
method and it worked a lot better and

927
00:41:57,950 --> 00:41:54,480
that's because Chinese magic although

928
00:42:01,370 --> 00:41:57,960
there's in some persecution is actually

929
00:42:03,740 --> 00:42:01,380
fairly intact and one of the Chinese

930
00:42:06,490 --> 00:42:03,750
magicians that I became friends with

931
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:06,500
claims and I'm not sure that that's true

932
00:42:14,090 --> 00:42:11,490
that he is the 36th in line of magician

933
00:42:16,090 --> 00:42:14,100
apprentice magician apprentice right the

934
00:42:20,890 --> 00:42:16,100
way down and certainly some of his

935
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:20,900
magical texts our considerable age so

936
00:42:26,690 --> 00:42:23,730
that was confirmatory for me and also

937
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:26,700
helped me to rebuild bits of the Western

938
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:30,720
magical method and as I started this

939
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:33,450
conversation this method that interests

940
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:34,890
me because it's something that can be

941
00:42:40,610 --> 00:42:37,530
checked there's no point in asking

942
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:40,620
people's opinion or what did Jack do

943
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:43,110
three hundred years ago probably

944
00:42:48,170 --> 00:42:46,170
interesting but I want to know how Jack

945
00:42:52,220 --> 00:42:48,180
did it and I want to see if I can do it

946
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:52,230
as well absolutely and I wanted to talk

947
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:53,610
to you about John Dee a little bit

948
00:42:56,420 --> 00:42:55,050
because of course you're very familiar

949
00:42:58,340 --> 00:42:56,430
with him and you've restored and

950
00:43:00,080 --> 00:42:58,350
translated a lot of his fractured

951
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:00,090
writings but he was also someone who

952
00:43:05,390 --> 00:43:02,130
seemed to take a scientific approach to

953
00:43:07,730 --> 00:43:05,400
magic - and one of my main curiosities

954
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:07,740
is magics influence and use among the

955
00:43:10,970 --> 00:43:08,640
elite being

956
00:43:13,339 --> 00:43:10,980
general conspiracy guy but that's

957
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:13,349
another area where John D comes up a lot

958
00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:15,089
what are your thoughts on him and in his

959
00:43:21,289 --> 00:43:18,900
practice okay so you're right on track

960
00:43:24,620 --> 00:43:21,299
there and we can be we can do the the

961
00:43:27,230 --> 00:43:24,630
elite thing because the magic was

962
00:43:29,870 --> 00:43:27,240
recorded basically in Latin some of the

963
00:43:32,509 --> 00:43:29,880
greatest magic grimoires are still in

964
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:32,519
Latin haven't been translated and John D

965
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:35,910
knew that and he selected methods from

966
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:37,920
several different grimoires melded them

967
00:43:41,660 --> 00:43:39,450
together and use them in the scrying

968
00:43:43,849 --> 00:43:41,670
context rather than the full implication

969
00:43:45,559 --> 00:43:43,859
he believed that massive prayer

970
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:45,569
beforehand was all the protection he

971
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:49,650
needed in fact when his crier got in

972
00:43:54,529 --> 00:43:52,319
touch with with various spirits he found

973
00:43:57,710 --> 00:43:54,539
that he was not contacting necessarily

974
00:44:00,410 --> 00:43:57,720
angels but also other spirits in fact

975
00:44:03,230 --> 00:44:00,420
Kelly on occasion complained that he'd

976
00:44:05,809 --> 00:44:03,240
been pinched by one's version showed

977
00:44:07,549 --> 00:44:05,819
quite severe marks on his arm which

978
00:44:11,809 --> 00:44:07,559
which may have been Kelly having Deon

979
00:44:14,269 --> 00:44:11,819
with anyway so the quite often would be

980
00:44:16,579 --> 00:44:14,279
talking through his crier to a spirit

981
00:44:19,460 --> 00:44:16,589
which was claiming to be an angel but

982
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:19,470
probably wasn't the D was using standard

983
00:44:26,299 --> 00:44:23,250
magical technology and the whole idea

984
00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:26,309
was that if I'm contacting angels it'll

985
00:44:31,309 --> 00:44:29,119
be safe be they'll tell me the truth

986
00:44:34,249 --> 00:44:31,319
what he didn't take into account was

987
00:44:36,109 --> 00:44:34,259
well they're not angels and they don't

988
00:44:39,019 --> 00:44:36,119
tell me the truth I can be led astray in

989
00:44:41,269 --> 00:44:39,029
all sorts of ways and indeed poor John

990
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:41,279
Dee was led a little bit astray

991
00:44:46,370 --> 00:44:44,130
Kelly for example told him why you

992
00:44:50,180 --> 00:44:46,380
should say to Steven who was king of

993
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:50,190
Poland and what he said to him was he

994
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:51,839
told him or for not being good Christian

995
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,240
and how he should pray and do this than

996
00:44:59,390 --> 00:44:56,880
the other Steven just refused to see him

997
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:59,400
after that saying if I want that kind of

998
00:45:04,460 --> 00:45:01,200
advice I'll go to a priest I don't need

999
00:45:08,089 --> 00:45:04,470
to go to a magician but anyway that's

1000
00:45:11,539 --> 00:45:08,099
neither here nor there but because magic

1001
00:45:13,370 --> 00:45:11,549
was predominantly available in lamb and

1002
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:13,380
to lesser extent in those days in Greek

1003
00:45:18,289 --> 00:45:16,079
you needed to be a scholar or non to

1004
00:45:20,299 --> 00:45:18,299
read it or an heiress to crap because

1005
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:20,309
they would have had an education which

1006
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:21,450
included

1007
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:24,810
learning that and as indeed in say

1008
00:45:30,310 --> 00:45:28,530
England up until 1950 in the elite

1009
00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:30,320
schools who would also have learnt them

1010
00:45:36,349 --> 00:45:33,660
so the interesting thing is that the

1011
00:45:38,260 --> 00:45:36,359
angel magicians at the seventeen

1012
00:45:42,380 --> 00:45:38,270
hundreds and early eighteen hundreds

1013
00:45:46,250 --> 00:45:42,390
were definitely almost all elite so for

1014
00:45:49,339 --> 00:45:46,260
example the master of the rolls which is

1015
00:45:52,910 --> 00:45:49,349
one of the highest legal positions think

1016
00:45:55,700 --> 00:45:52,920
Lord Denning occupied it recently he was

1017
00:45:58,579 --> 00:45:55,710
an angel magician the Lord of the

1018
00:46:00,590 --> 00:45:58,589
Admiralty also was interested in calling

1019
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:00,600
spirits

1020
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:02,970
there were a number of Lords and also a

1021
00:46:08,060 --> 00:46:05,010
number of really rich and successful

1022
00:46:09,470 --> 00:46:08,070
lawyers and they passed the manuscripts

1023
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:09,480
from one to the other and I've tracked

1024
00:46:14,270 --> 00:46:12,570
in one of my books who owned what and

1025
00:46:15,980 --> 00:46:14,280
passed it to somebody else and you can

1026
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:15,990
see the change in methods as it goes

1027
00:46:21,950 --> 00:46:19,010
from hand to hand and they are

1028
00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:21,960
undoubtedly all elite because you don't

1029
00:46:28,970 --> 00:46:26,760
become a senior judge or wire or Lord

1030
00:46:32,060 --> 00:46:28,980
without obviously belonging to the

1031
00:46:34,340 --> 00:46:32,070
League class now at the same time those

1032
00:46:37,610 --> 00:46:34,350
people who were not quite so literate

1033
00:46:39,610 --> 00:46:37,620
would have been learning or would have

1034
00:46:42,050 --> 00:46:39,620
been using a more cut-down form of magic

1035
00:46:44,810 --> 00:46:42,060
invocation without protection and things

1036
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:44,820
like that but anyway conspiracy wise

1037
00:46:51,050 --> 00:46:48,000
you're absolutely right in the 1700s and

1038
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:51,060
early 1800s it was almost entirely the

1039
00:46:57,170 --> 00:46:54,570
province of the elite hmm well

1040
00:46:59,210 --> 00:46:57,180
conspiracy media it does tend to be a

1041
00:47:01,880 --> 00:46:59,220
bit sensationalist when talking about

1042
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:01,890
magic often throwing everything under an

1043
00:47:07,130 --> 00:47:04,890
umbrella of Satanism and that nearly

1044
00:47:08,990 --> 00:47:07,140
everything the elite do is a ritual or

1045
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:09,000
blood sacrifice to expand their power

1046
00:47:13,070 --> 00:47:11,520
absorb energy from the masses and maybe

1047
00:47:15,530 --> 00:47:13,080
I'm hoping we can bring a little nuance

1048
00:47:17,690 --> 00:47:15,540
to that perspective but do you see any

1049
00:47:19,850 --> 00:47:17,700
indications that the elite class of

1050
00:47:24,020 --> 00:47:19,860
today use magical tools to any

1051
00:47:29,630 --> 00:47:24,030
significant degree then so that's a

1052
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:29,640
curly question isn't it I do know some

1053
00:47:34,850 --> 00:47:31,530
members of the elite who do practice

1054
00:47:38,060 --> 00:47:34,860
magic that is true one or two of them

1055
00:47:40,430 --> 00:47:38,070
they practice it really well but I don't

1056
00:47:43,340 --> 00:47:40,440
see any of them practicing it in the

1057
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:43,350
ways that the sensational media would

1058
00:47:48,350 --> 00:47:46,160
have you believe if we're talking about

1059
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:48,360
who was it

1060
00:47:54,980 --> 00:47:52,770
David eek and be people that far out

1061
00:47:57,090 --> 00:47:54,990
then I can't really believe any of that

1062
00:48:00,180 --> 00:47:57,100
exists

1063
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:00,190
well I guess one question would be do

1064
00:48:04,650 --> 00:48:01,690
you get the impression from your study

1065
00:48:07,110 --> 00:48:04,660
of magic that it could scale up to a

1066
00:48:09,210 --> 00:48:07,120
level of blood sacrifice and that might

1067
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:09,220
affect its potency or is that are those

1068
00:48:16,620 --> 00:48:13,210
claims overblown okay well I'm going to

1069
00:48:19,350 --> 00:48:16,630
say straight out that blood sacrifice is

1070
00:48:23,630 --> 00:48:19,360
one of the methods used in some forms of

1071
00:48:27,210 --> 00:48:23,640
magic and the reason is that the spirits

1072
00:48:30,540 --> 00:48:27,220
need to be offered something nobody

1073
00:48:32,610 --> 00:48:30,550
works for nothing and this two

1074
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:32,620
approaches one is you can bind them and

1075
00:48:37,530 --> 00:48:34,930
force them and the other approach is

1076
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:37,540
that you can ratify them and give them

1077
00:48:43,350 --> 00:48:40,930
something they want now spirits cannot

1078
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:43,360
access of their own accord something on

1079
00:48:49,140 --> 00:48:45,760
the physical plane it has to be

1080
00:48:52,050 --> 00:48:49,150
literally given to them so when incense

1081
00:48:54,270 --> 00:48:52,060
is burned the words should be expressed

1082
00:48:57,210 --> 00:48:54,280
said that the in sentence being burned

1083
00:49:01,530 --> 00:48:57,220
for their benefit if you think back into

1084
00:49:06,090 --> 00:49:01,540
ancient history the ancient Jews for 70

1085
00:49:08,550 --> 00:49:06,100
AD had massive sacrifices of animals in

1086
00:49:12,030 --> 00:49:08,560
the temple in Jerusalem dating right

1087
00:49:15,090 --> 00:49:12,040
back to King Solomon's era and they knew

1088
00:49:18,540 --> 00:49:15,100
that that gave them a certain amount of

1089
00:49:22,350 --> 00:49:18,550
power once the Romans had destroyed the

1090
00:49:25,110 --> 00:49:22,360
Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD a lot of

1091
00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:25,120
that powers lost due to so scattered

1092
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:27,760
across the world very sad for them and

1093
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:31,810
there was never a possibility of

1094
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:34,240
rebuilding the temple the temple was in

1095
00:49:41,130 --> 00:49:37,930
fact rebuilt three times or almost three

1096
00:49:43,410 --> 00:49:41,140
times and even early in the Christian

1097
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:43,420
era one of the Emperor's funds as the

1098
00:49:47,370 --> 00:49:45,490
rebuilding of again because he was

1099
00:49:49,890 --> 00:49:47,380
feeling guilty about what they did in 70

1100
00:49:53,310 --> 00:49:49,900
AD but his reign was far too short so

1101
00:49:55,110 --> 00:49:53,320
not very much happened but when we

1102
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:55,120
getting away from blood sacrifice yeah

1103
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:57,010
it's an example and probably the thing

1104
00:50:02,260 --> 00:50:00,480
to save it gets small animals sometimes

1105
00:50:04,060 --> 00:50:02,270
sacrificed

1106
00:50:08,410 --> 00:50:04,070
and for those of you out there who are

1107
00:50:11,860 --> 00:50:08,420
vegetarian which I am mostly and who is

1108
00:50:13,540 --> 00:50:11,870
squeamish I don't really see why there

1109
00:50:15,970 --> 00:50:13,550
should be any difference between doing

1110
00:50:19,510 --> 00:50:15,980
that and having somebody else slaughter

1111
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:19,520
animals so you can eat a steak but

1112
00:50:24,250 --> 00:50:21,050
eating a steak obviously doesn't have

1113
00:50:26,460 --> 00:50:24,260
any magical use at all but you know

1114
00:50:29,530 --> 00:50:26,470
animals have been from time immemorial

1115
00:50:32,350 --> 00:50:29,540
slaughtered by human beings these days

1116
00:50:35,470 --> 00:50:32,360
mostly for food but there is still one

1117
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:35,480
set of magical techniques where blood

1118
00:50:40,810 --> 00:50:38,530
it's useful one word of warning here

1119
00:50:42,190 --> 00:50:40,820
those people who want to be politically

1120
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:42,200
correct will say well why don't you

1121
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,450
sacrifice your own blood you know prick

1122
00:50:48,890 --> 00:50:46,800
your finger a few drops

1123
00:50:50,690 --> 00:50:48,900
that's a very unwise procedure because

1124
00:50:53,870 --> 00:50:50,700
it establishes direct link between you

1125
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:53,880
and the spirit which in times after that

1126
00:51:02,060 --> 00:50:57,810
will find very troublesome hmm yeah I

1127
00:51:03,890 --> 00:51:02,070
can only imagine so we kind of talked

1128
00:51:07,700 --> 00:51:03,900
about John Dee a little bit of course he

1129
00:51:09,710 --> 00:51:07,710
was an advisor to Queen Elizabeth do you

1130
00:51:13,550 --> 00:51:09,720
get any indication that the elite of

1131
00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:13,560
today have similar magical advisers on

1132
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:20,810
that's an interesting question

1133
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:23,520
I remember that Tony Blair and his wife

1134
00:51:29,780 --> 00:51:26,810
Sherry had a rather new age advisor

1135
00:51:33,350 --> 00:51:29,790
advising on what they should do which

1136
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:33,360
came out at one stage but I don't think

1137
00:51:36,380 --> 00:51:35,370
she equates with what sort of people

1138
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:36,390
we're talking about

1139
00:51:43,730 --> 00:51:41,130
if the elites have their own magicians

1140
00:51:47,780 --> 00:51:43,740
then they're not very keen to tell you

1141
00:51:49,850 --> 00:51:47,790
about it right and and if I knew one or

1142
00:51:55,370 --> 00:51:49,860
two such cases I really shouldn't

1143
00:51:57,650 --> 00:51:55,380
elaborate on that fair enough dee dee

1144
00:51:58,970 --> 00:51:57,660
did useful as logical things like pick

1145
00:52:01,910 --> 00:51:58,980
the right date for Elizabeth's

1146
00:52:04,550 --> 00:52:01,920
coronation thereby making probably one

1147
00:52:07,100 --> 00:52:04,560
of the best reigns in British history

1148
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:07,110
I'm pretty sure that nobody picked

1149
00:52:11,900 --> 00:52:09,570
Elizabeth the second date of coronation

1150
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:11,910
and it would have been sorted out our

1151
00:52:18,449 --> 00:52:13,839
public servants

1152
00:52:22,140 --> 00:52:18,459
in Asia my other interest is from true

1153
00:52:26,009 --> 00:52:22,150
and I don't mean in the really crass pop

1154
00:52:28,259 --> 00:52:26,019
way of just moving furniture around but

1155
00:52:32,189 --> 00:52:28,269
I know that a lot of the elites in Asia

1156
00:52:35,279 --> 00:52:32,199
use country masters to ensure that their

1157
00:52:37,499 --> 00:52:35,289
projects will be successful and the neh

1158
00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:37,509
will continue to come in the case of

1159
00:52:41,819 --> 00:52:39,910
some of the casinos out here there are

1160
00:52:43,799 --> 00:52:41,829
specialist poetry masters who make sure

1161
00:52:47,130 --> 00:52:43,809
that money comes into the casino but

1162
00:52:48,929 --> 00:52:47,140
doesn't leave as in the began will

1163
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:48,939
should please leave with empty pockets

1164
00:52:55,499 --> 00:52:52,970
that country is not magic but

1165
00:52:58,420 --> 00:52:55,509
it was my answer in the sense that

1166
00:53:00,940 --> 00:52:58,430
specialist practitioners are still used

1167
00:53:02,859 --> 00:53:00,950
by the elites out here and so it

1168
00:53:05,099 --> 00:53:02,869
wouldn't be surprising if it was used by

1169
00:53:08,170 --> 00:53:05,109
some of the European Western elites

1170
00:53:10,599 --> 00:53:08,180
somehow I don't get feeling that the

1171
00:53:13,180 --> 00:53:10,609
present presidents the u.s. reading the

1172
00:53:16,450 --> 00:53:13,190
past couple have asked that kind of

1173
00:53:18,190 --> 00:53:16,460
advice that's what I think that's the

1174
00:53:21,039 --> 00:53:18,200
kind of answer I generally get is that

1175
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:21,049
it doesn't seem like they're into that

1176
00:53:24,940 --> 00:53:22,609
stuff at all that the kind of

1177
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:24,950
demonization or just suppression of

1178
00:53:29,620 --> 00:53:27,650
magic is so severe at this point that

1179
00:53:31,740 --> 00:53:29,630
even the elite class are missing out on

1180
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:31,750
a tool that they could have access to

1181
00:53:36,519 --> 00:53:34,880
yeah but it's more than these days it's

1182
00:53:39,009 --> 00:53:36,529
more than suppression what it is of

1183
00:53:42,329 --> 00:53:39,019
course is a once a indoctrination but

1184
00:53:44,529 --> 00:53:42,339
the scientific approach to everything

1185
00:53:47,559 --> 00:53:44,539
says if you know if you can't see ever

1186
00:53:51,299 --> 00:53:47,569
measure it it doesn't exist my answer

1187
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:51,309
that is you can't see radio waves but

1188
00:53:56,529 --> 00:53:54,410
really is still work and how do you

1189
00:53:59,589 --> 00:53:56,539
explain that if you can pin somebody

1190
00:54:01,539 --> 00:53:59,599
down and ask them to do that they're

1191
00:54:04,299 --> 00:54:01,549
going to a lot of theoretical stuff but

1192
00:54:06,009 --> 00:54:04,309
they can't really demonstrate except

1193
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:06,019
perhaps shielding their radio from a

1194
00:54:08,470 --> 00:54:06,650
source

1195
00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:08,480
I don't know why I'm going with that

1196
00:54:13,089 --> 00:54:10,910
person well that's another thing that

1197
00:54:16,749 --> 00:54:13,099
has come up before is the idea that

1198
00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:16,759
maybe all the signals of our modern

1199
00:54:22,420 --> 00:54:19,730
world might interfere somehow with our

1200
00:54:25,410 --> 00:54:22,430
connection to the spirit world well I

1201
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:25,420
know suddenly the noise and smells

1202
00:54:29,620 --> 00:54:27,200
interfere with that connection to the

1203
00:54:34,930 --> 00:54:29,630
spirit world so it wouldn't surprise me

1204
00:54:37,269 --> 00:54:34,940
of having a live fire degraded the ones

1205
00:54:40,210 --> 00:54:37,279
abilities in that area of course all of

1206
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:40,220
us needs to be connected I prefer to be

1207
00:54:46,569 --> 00:54:42,079
connected to a cable rather than Wi-Fi

1208
00:54:49,089 --> 00:54:46,579
but that's just me so yeah but I think

1209
00:54:51,940 --> 00:54:49,099
it's the the attitude the attitude that

1210
00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:51,950
magic is nonsense and magic is

1211
00:55:00,339 --> 00:54:54,710
fairytales that protects people from

1212
00:55:02,410 --> 00:55:00,349
wishing to to use it and so as I

1213
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:02,420
mentioned earlier I think Harry Potter

1214
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:04,730
has actually influenced the younger

1215
00:55:08,660 --> 00:55:05,850
generation

1216
00:55:09,980 --> 00:55:08,670
in a fictional civil way but it's at

1217
00:55:12,530 --> 00:55:09,990
least that have been their mind to the

1218
00:55:15,530 --> 00:55:12,540
possibilities absolutely it gets the

1219
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:15,540
wheels turning no doubt yeah and then so

1220
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:18,210
many more people of that generation and

1221
00:55:23,660 --> 00:55:20,730
now looking to see what they can find

1222
00:55:25,250 --> 00:55:23,670
with what they can do and I was there

1223
00:55:26,750 --> 00:55:25,260
when I was a kid there was very few

1224
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:26,760
books on magic out there

1225
00:55:32,900 --> 00:55:29,610
now there's the Wills with their many

1226
00:55:36,380 --> 00:55:32,910
and I'm more guilty than most for having

1227
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:36,390
added to the stack of books involved in

1228
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:36,960
magic

1229
00:55:41,330 --> 00:55:39,570
well considering for how long people

1230
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,340
could be put to death for reading this

1231
00:55:45,950 --> 00:55:43,680
kind of stuff I feel like maybe we

1232
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:45,960
should do it just out of respect for

1233
00:55:51,230 --> 00:55:48,570
people who lost their lives yeah over it

1234
00:55:54,350 --> 00:55:51,240
nice one yeah we'll leave the witchcraft

1235
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:54,360
Act I think was only repealed in 1951 in

1236
00:55:58,310 --> 00:55:54,930
England

1237
00:55:59,930 --> 00:55:58,320
I think witchcraft informal persecution

1238
00:56:03,200 --> 00:55:59,940
probably happened right after the Second

1239
00:56:05,570 --> 00:56:03,210
World War but it's more it's more

1240
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:05,580
disregarding our role in persecution

1241
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:08,930
right whilst that it definitely is and

1242
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:12,000
so before we go I did see that it looks

1243
00:56:15,980 --> 00:56:13,170
like you're involved in an upcoming

1244
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:15,990
release about the phonic manuscript of

1245
00:56:20,270 --> 00:56:17,910
course it's legendary because so many

1246
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:20,280
people have been unable to decipher it

1247
00:56:23,690 --> 00:56:21,090
or decode it

1248
00:56:26,060 --> 00:56:23,700
having translated so much and being so

1249
00:56:28,010 --> 00:56:26,070
familiar with old grimoires what's your

1250
00:56:29,390 --> 00:56:28,020
take on on the manuscript and its

1251
00:56:33,650 --> 00:56:29,400
purpose do you think you'd crack the

1252
00:56:36,460 --> 00:56:33,660
case well if you ask me point blank can

1253
00:56:39,860 --> 00:56:36,470
you translate the answer's no every time

1254
00:56:42,620 --> 00:56:39,870
somebody comes up with theory about it

1255
00:56:45,050 --> 00:56:42,630
it's oh it's it's bound to be this kind

1256
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:45,060
of code or it's bound to being coded

1257
00:56:51,650 --> 00:56:48,330
like it is actually I'm fairly certain

1258
00:56:55,490 --> 00:56:51,660
that the original language is Italian

1259
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:55,500
and Latin but it's encoded in such a way

1260
00:57:01,210 --> 00:56:57,930
it is not gibberish because people have

1261
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:01,220
done that accounts on it and it has the

1262
00:57:05,300 --> 00:57:03,330
proportions of letters of a natural

1263
00:57:07,220 --> 00:57:05,310
language so it's not gibberish is

1264
00:57:10,130 --> 00:57:07,230
definitely something in there the

1265
00:57:11,630 --> 00:57:10,140
planned drawings of the giveaway because

1266
00:57:13,310 --> 00:57:11,640
the number of the plans had now been

1267
00:57:18,250 --> 00:57:13,320
identified

1268
00:57:20,990 --> 00:57:18,260
it's not really magic it's it's pharmacy

1269
00:57:24,650 --> 00:57:21,000
pharmaceuticals drawn complaints its

1270
00:57:27,710 --> 00:57:24,660
cosmology its astrology and so it's

1271
00:57:29,450 --> 00:57:27,720
obviously done by somebody who lived in

1272
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:29,460
the world where all these things were

1273
00:57:36,500 --> 00:57:31,530
related rather than separate faculties

1274
00:57:38,210 --> 00:57:36,510
at universities it's been the stuff is

1275
00:57:42,650 --> 00:57:38,220
written on and the ink have been dated

1276
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:42,660
and I think it's related to 1420 plus or

1277
00:57:47,450 --> 00:57:45,570
minus 20 years so it's really quite old

1278
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:47,460
it wasn't it wasn't

1279
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:50,490
fortunately invented by by Mohnish

1280
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:54,000
himself it wasn't invented by D in fact

1281
00:57:58,640 --> 00:57:56,330
I think he probably never earned it

1282
00:58:01,160 --> 00:57:58,650
despite the stories that he sold them to

1283
00:58:06,260 --> 00:58:01,170
him to Rudolf and second it wasn't

1284
00:58:07,850 --> 00:58:06,270
written by bacon the author will

1285
00:58:10,460 --> 00:58:07,860
probably always remain anonymous

1286
00:58:13,070 --> 00:58:10,470
one day I believe somebody will crack it

1287
00:58:17,060 --> 00:58:13,080
what we've done in this is produce a

1288
00:58:19,550 --> 00:58:17,070
very clear photo representation of a

1289
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:19,560
Trank how the pages fall and showing the

1290
00:58:24,740 --> 00:58:21,930
detail and drawing one's attention to

1291
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:24,750
several clues and points and things I

1292
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:28,130
wish I could say that we cracked it

1293
00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:32,490
translated it i've various researchers

1294
00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:35,040
that figured out some words particularly

1295
00:58:44,090 --> 00:58:39,780
planned names in italian predominantly

1296
00:58:45,170 --> 00:58:44,100
but that's it it goes no further now to

1297
00:58:46,460 --> 00:58:45,180
my own detriment

1298
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:46,470
i have to say that there were a number

1299
00:58:51,140 --> 00:58:48,330
of different editions of Voynich

1300
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:51,150
manuscript suddenly all come out at the

1301
00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:54,690
same time and this is this is rather

1302
00:58:59,000 --> 00:58:56,220
surprising that this sometimes happens

1303
00:59:01,640 --> 00:58:59,010
that at a certain point people start

1304
00:59:05,180 --> 00:59:01,650
thinking about a particular manuscript

1305
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:05,190
or a particular person like the suddenly

1306
00:59:10,300 --> 00:59:07,730
a lot of books come out on it

1307
00:59:13,870 --> 00:59:10,310
all I can say is that the one that I

1308
00:59:16,420 --> 00:59:13,880
contributed to the reproduction is

1309
00:59:17,470 --> 00:59:16,430
really very splendid and so you can see

1310
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:17,480
a lot of detail

1311
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:20,330
it's a lovely manuscript I can't see

1312
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:22,490
anyone cracking it for another I don't

1313
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:26,090
know twenty thirty hundred years but I'd

1314
00:59:29,530 --> 00:59:27,290
like to be around when it happens

1315
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:29,540
because I really would like to read once

1316
00:59:34,300 --> 00:59:32,210
in there oh yeah it would be great but

1317
00:59:36,130 --> 00:59:34,310
it almost seems like we would get

1318
00:59:38,260 --> 00:59:36,140
further and further away from being able

1319
00:59:42,130 --> 00:59:38,270
to do it as you know the further we get

1320
00:59:43,900 --> 00:59:42,140
away from its source now I think it

1321
00:59:46,359 --> 00:59:43,910
would have been difficult even then in

1322
00:59:48,700 --> 00:59:46,369
1500 people would have been confused by

1323
00:59:51,790 --> 00:59:48,710
it he's definitely been written by

1324
00:59:54,849 --> 00:59:51,800
somebody who was very very interested in

1325
00:59:57,940 --> 00:59:54,859
plants because the the plant detail is

1326
01:00:00,340 --> 00:59:57,950
amazing like you never arise in roots

1327
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:00,350
one which connects underground and

1328
01:00:04,690 --> 01:00:01,850
connects to several different plants

1329
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:04,700
it's quite rare but it's really a

1330
01:00:11,170 --> 01:00:08,330
detailed drawing of it so people whoever

1331
01:00:12,910 --> 01:00:11,180
made this hasn't just written rubbish

1332
01:00:15,340 --> 01:00:12,920
about plants they've actually dug them

1333
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:15,350
up washed them looked at the roots

1334
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:17,810
colored them checked you know and then

1335
01:00:21,310 --> 01:00:20,330
discovered and I think it's probably for

1336
01:00:24,690 --> 01:00:21,320
medical purposes

1337
01:00:28,060 --> 01:00:24,700
I suspect the person who wrote it was a

1338
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:28,070
doctor at the very least a herbalist

1339
01:00:32,770 --> 01:00:30,410
probably a doctor I am also pretty

1340
01:00:36,580 --> 01:00:32,780
certain that he lived in northern Italy

1341
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:36,590
somewhere in near Peter and I'm

1342
01:00:41,980 --> 01:00:38,330
absolutely certain that he was Jewish

1343
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:41,990
because some of the references in there

1344
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:43,730
some of the descriptions and some of the

1345
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:47,690
drawings reflect mcbarns which were

1346
01:00:52,900 --> 01:00:50,690
common at that time and they weren't

1347
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:52,910
common in Christian communities and they

1348
01:00:59,170 --> 01:00:56,690
won't comment in any way read the book

1349
01:01:01,599 --> 01:00:59,180
you know so I can describe various

1350
01:01:05,050 --> 01:01:01,609
things about him with certainty his

1351
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:05,060
religion his profession his is where he

1352
01:01:10,180 --> 01:01:07,010
was I can also say that he probably

1353
01:01:13,780 --> 01:01:10,190
travelled across this result to southern

1354
01:01:16,780 --> 01:01:13,790
Germany or that he was patronized by a

1355
01:01:20,980 --> 01:01:16,790
German family because one of the

1356
01:01:21,349 --> 01:01:20,990
drawings in Sagittarius shows about an

1357
01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:21,359
hour

1358
01:01:27,140 --> 01:01:24,089
it doesn't show a longbow it shows a

1359
01:01:29,479 --> 01:01:27,150
cross butter and crossbows are very

1360
01:01:31,999 --> 01:01:29,489
common in southern Germany just north of

1361
01:01:34,210 --> 01:01:32,009
the Alps and they one common in Italy so

1362
01:01:39,019 --> 01:01:34,220
you know there's little hints like that

1363
01:01:42,170 --> 01:01:39,029
me and two of my colleagues who are come

1364
01:01:44,839 --> 01:01:42,180
Central Europe once polish who is also

1365
01:01:48,109 --> 01:01:44,849
interested in John Dee did a lot of

1366
01:01:49,339 --> 01:01:48,119
digging and what we haven't dug at

1367
01:01:51,380 --> 01:01:49,349
everything otherwise we'd have the

1368
01:01:54,289 --> 01:01:51,390
answer but we've dug out more than other

1369
01:01:56,809 --> 01:01:54,299
people have up to this point very cool

1370
01:02:00,680 --> 01:01:56,819
well the Devils in those details and you

1371
01:02:02,900 --> 01:02:00,690
seem to be closing in on it huh Wow well

1372
01:02:04,339 --> 01:02:02,910
dr. Skinner this has really been an

1373
01:02:06,829 --> 01:02:04,349
honor for me because I do have so much

1374
01:02:08,979 --> 01:02:06,839
respect for your work and contributions

1375
01:02:11,450 --> 01:02:08,989
to the magical community and history

1376
01:02:13,220 --> 01:02:11,460
hopefully what seems like a magical

1377
01:02:15,349 --> 01:02:13,230
resurgence continues to grow and more

1378
01:02:17,239 --> 01:02:15,359
people end up appreciating those

1379
01:02:18,859 --> 01:02:17,249
contributions as well before we go would

1380
01:02:20,539 --> 01:02:18,869
you like to remind the people where to

1381
01:02:22,849 --> 01:02:20,549
get deeper into your work any upcoming

1382
01:02:25,940 --> 01:02:22,859
projects or your web address those kind

1383
01:02:28,190 --> 01:02:25,950
of things well if you're interested in

1384
01:02:31,099 --> 01:02:28,200
country then I've done a couple of books

1385
01:02:34,069 --> 01:02:31,109
on poetry particularly one on flying

1386
01:02:37,220 --> 01:02:34,079
staff on true Flying Star contra is one

1387
01:02:39,380 --> 01:02:37,230
of the best methods working inside a

1388
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:39,390
home if you're interested in Graco

1389
01:02:45,319 --> 01:02:42,930
Egyptian magic and I've done techniques

1390
01:02:48,319 --> 01:02:45,329
of great Egyptian magic which is

1391
01:02:50,900 --> 01:02:48,329
published by golden board you can see it

1392
01:02:53,839 --> 01:02:50,910
on Amazon you can pick it up in book

1393
01:02:56,529 --> 01:02:53,849
shops in the States few exceptions in

1394
01:03:00,440 --> 01:02:56,539
England as well and a couple in Europe

1395
01:03:03,049 --> 01:03:00,450
sadly not in Singapore and then I've

1396
01:03:05,299 --> 01:03:03,059
also done a techniques of promote

1397
01:03:09,529 --> 01:03:05,309
Solomonic magic which covers a lot of

1398
01:03:11,690 --> 01:03:09,539
the dramas and it actually lays down the

1399
01:03:13,099 --> 01:03:11,700
various tools that you need and how they

1400
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:13,109
should look and how they should be

1401
01:03:17,779 --> 01:03:15,450
prepared so techniques of Solomonic

1402
01:03:21,289 --> 01:03:17,789
magic is useful if you're going to do

1403
01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:21,299
that sort of thing and if you were

1404
01:03:27,549 --> 01:03:24,089
interested in the go Asia then David

1405
01:03:31,489 --> 01:03:27,559
Rankin and I choose the go issue dr. rod

1406
01:03:33,039 --> 01:03:31,499
dr. Brad was a real practitioner in the

1407
01:03:37,269 --> 01:03:33,049
mid 1600s

1408
01:03:41,229 --> 01:03:37,279
we actually advanced magic fair bit and

1409
01:03:43,509 --> 01:03:41,239
we produced his manuscript in entirety

1410
01:03:45,819 --> 01:03:43,519
and I've written quite a lot of

1411
01:03:47,679 --> 01:03:45,829
commentary on how he did it and where

1412
01:03:49,599 --> 01:03:47,689
the historical background is all that

1413
01:03:52,569 --> 01:03:49,609
sort of thing so that's good if you're

1414
01:03:55,929 --> 01:03:52,579
interested in the cohesion otherwise

1415
01:03:59,949 --> 01:03:55,939
there's actually in total 46 books I

1416
01:04:02,739 --> 01:03:59,959
hope my pen some of them long since gone

1417
01:04:05,649 --> 01:04:02,749
out of print but I'm fairly easy to find

1418
01:04:08,949 --> 01:04:05,659
on Amazon probably easy to find on

1419
01:04:10,059 --> 01:04:08,959
Amazon with as little shops mm-hmm isn't

1420
01:04:13,809 --> 01:04:10,069
that the case these days

1421
01:04:15,370 --> 01:04:13,819
yeah well very cool again can't thank

1422
01:04:17,949 --> 01:04:15,380
you enough you're an inspiration man

1423
01:04:21,009 --> 01:04:17,959
take care out there okay thanks for

1424
01:04:23,499 --> 01:04:21,019
putting up with me for what is it will

1425
01:04:27,219 --> 01:04:23,509
over well over now

1426
01:04:29,620 --> 01:04:27,229
oh yes two hours oh good go anyway since

1427
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:29,630
I'm talking to you thanks good you got

1428
01:04:35,499 --> 01:04:31,039
it cheers Cheers

1429
01:04:38,319 --> 01:04:35,509
bye peace abracadabra and cheers in D

1430
01:04:42,159 --> 01:04:38,329
higher side shatters big thanks to dr.

1431
01:04:44,379 --> 01:04:42,169
Stephen Skinner hmm so so impressed with

1432
01:04:46,809 --> 01:04:44,389
his knowledge and this was an episode

1433
01:04:48,759 --> 01:04:46,819
that I studied quite a lot for if you

1434
01:04:51,669 --> 01:04:48,769
can believe it but there's just so much

1435
01:04:54,759 --> 01:04:51,679
so much to know just even getting your

1436
01:04:57,069 --> 01:04:54,769
head around a single century or tracing

1437
01:04:58,719 --> 01:04:57,079
one particular text is difficult enough

1438
01:05:02,049 --> 01:04:58,729
not to mention the various layers of

1439
01:05:04,929 --> 01:05:02,059
context for the times various waxing and

1440
01:05:07,269 --> 01:05:04,939
waning influences laws and attitudes and

1441
01:05:10,539 --> 01:05:07,279
the level of aggression towards magic at

1442
01:05:13,089 --> 01:05:10,549
a particular point who I find it to be a

1443
01:05:13,919 --> 01:05:13,099
lot of fun actually but quite

1444
01:05:17,649 --> 01:05:13,929
challenging

1445
01:05:20,079 --> 01:05:17,659
conveniently I'm also deep into Gordon

1446
01:05:22,599 --> 01:05:20,089
White's grimoire course which has to be

1447
01:05:25,959 --> 01:05:22,609
like the best of its kind I know nothing

1448
01:05:28,749 --> 01:05:25,969
like it tons of amazing information very

1449
01:05:31,029 --> 01:05:28,759
synergistic with this episode of THC and

1450
01:05:32,709 --> 01:05:31,039
what I've been having to digest for

1451
01:05:35,319 --> 01:05:32,719
quote-unquote work lately

1452
01:05:37,959 --> 01:05:35,329
but the aggro Mantia is now on my

1453
01:05:40,839 --> 01:05:37,969
wedding registry along with an altar to

1454
01:05:44,439 --> 01:05:40,849
replace my makeshift one out of my

1455
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:44,449
fiancees childhood toy box and we also

1456
01:05:49,900 --> 01:05:46,610
got a whole lot of

1457
01:05:53,410 --> 01:05:49,910
Gaborik supplies and concentrate stuff

1458
01:05:55,300 --> 01:05:53,420
on there too so deal with it family you

1459
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:55,310
got a real Sophie's Choice to make here

1460
01:06:00,940 --> 01:05:56,570
are you going to buy me and the lady

1461
01:06:02,950 --> 01:06:00,950
drug supplies or a cult stuff or a nice

1462
01:06:05,620 --> 01:06:02,960
nutribullet blender why you can still

1463
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:05,630
grab yourself a neutral option act quick

1464
01:06:11,290 --> 01:06:09,170
family and another effect that this

1465
01:06:14,290 --> 01:06:11,300
episode and Gordon's grimoire course

1466
01:06:16,780 --> 01:06:14,300
have had on me is that they have sent me

1467
01:06:19,210 --> 01:06:16,790
on a path of looking for old rare books

1468
01:06:21,850 --> 01:06:19,220
and libraries or collections that I

1469
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:21,860
could check out locally which is

1470
01:06:25,420 --> 01:06:23,450
fascinating stuff and a lot of what I

1471
01:06:27,310 --> 01:06:25,430
found isn't in English which is to be

1472
01:06:30,100 --> 01:06:27,320
expected but if I had an extra 10 grand

1473
01:06:32,770 --> 01:06:30,110
laying around I could see the appeal and

1474
01:06:35,110 --> 01:06:32,780
getting an old book of spells that maybe

1475
01:06:37,420 --> 01:06:35,120
hasn't been translated and slowly going

1476
01:06:40,270 --> 01:06:37,430
through and working out that translation

1477
01:06:42,700 --> 01:06:40,280
I mean [\h__\h] sodoku and the Sunday paper

1478
01:06:44,370 --> 01:06:42,710
crossword puzzle right I mean do this if

1479
01:06:47,740 --> 01:06:44,380
you want a challenging puzzle to solve

1480
01:06:49,900 --> 01:06:47,750
but I love it one of the most academic

1481
01:06:52,300 --> 01:06:49,910
approaches to magic we've probably taken

1482
01:06:54,310 --> 01:06:52,310
with a guest and I have a lot of pride

1483
01:06:56,380 --> 01:06:54,320
in this show because I don't find many

1484
01:06:58,150 --> 01:06:56,390
interviews with dr. Skinner out there

1485
01:07:00,580 --> 01:06:58,160
and I think about how many people listen

1486
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:00,590
to this show and just making it to this

1487
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:02,930
point you really are in a pretty special

1488
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:06,170
Club like Miguel Connor - great show on

1489
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:08,810
Gnosticism two weeks ago take that and

1490
01:07:13,930 --> 01:07:11,330
this piece and you have a nice little

1491
01:07:16,300 --> 01:07:13,940
crash course in some very deep material

1492
01:07:18,190 --> 01:07:16,310
do you think anyone in your regular life

1493
01:07:20,110 --> 01:07:18,200
understands these things like you do

1494
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:20,120
just off these cliff notes I mean

1495
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:21,530
especially if you heard the Plus shows

1496
01:07:26,350 --> 01:07:24,770
these two episodes would be the start of

1497
01:07:28,690 --> 01:07:26,360
a nice little gift set if there were

1498
01:07:30,820 --> 01:07:28,700
such a thing of course I don't want to

1499
01:07:33,670 --> 01:07:30,830
diminish the depth of these studies or

1500
01:07:36,070 --> 01:07:33,680
these guests work and make it sound like

1501
01:07:38,170 --> 01:07:36,080
well to our podcast we know what we need

1502
01:07:40,180 --> 01:07:38,180
to know but at the same time we are

1503
01:07:42,490 --> 01:07:40,190
putting this out to a lot of people

1504
01:07:45,250 --> 01:07:42,500
compared to what's typical for a genre

1505
01:07:46,810 --> 01:07:45,260
like magic granted it's a small niche so

1506
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:46,820
I'm not trying to brag about anything

1507
01:07:50,350 --> 01:07:48,170
because it's kind of like being the

1508
01:07:53,890 --> 01:07:50,360
world's tallest [\h__\h] but it is still

1509
01:07:56,470 --> 01:07:53,900
cool to me an analogy would be Joe Rogan

1510
01:07:58,480 --> 01:07:56,480
right so he's got like the podcast of

1511
01:08:00,039 --> 01:07:58,490
all podcasts and this audience is larger

1512
01:08:03,069 --> 01:08:00,049
than probably two-thirds of what

1513
01:08:04,870 --> 01:08:03,079
on TV so I love to watch it because of

1514
01:08:07,569 --> 01:08:04,880
that fact and when he does a show about

1515
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:07,579
pizza gate or one with Randall Carlson I

1516
01:08:11,979 --> 01:08:09,890
get home worked up and giddy because

1517
01:08:14,349 --> 01:08:11,989
it's not that it's the most mind-blowing

1518
01:08:16,629 --> 01:08:14,359
stuff ever for someone who looks into

1519
01:08:20,019 --> 01:08:16,639
this regularly but just because I know

1520
01:08:21,669 --> 01:08:20,029
how many people it's reaching and that's

1521
01:08:24,430 --> 01:08:21,679
what's cool about it scale that down to

1522
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:24,440
th see where we're reaching tens of

1523
01:08:30,999 --> 01:08:27,170
thousands of people but our subjects are

1524
01:08:32,890 --> 01:08:31,009
even more obscure anyway I do think the

1525
01:08:34,780 --> 01:08:32,900
good doctor is spot-on when he talks

1526
01:08:37,299 --> 01:08:34,790
about the difficulty of doing magic

1527
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:37,309
we've been trained to sort of brush the

1528
01:08:41,620 --> 01:08:39,650
whole subject off like oh yeah I can

1529
01:08:44,260 --> 01:08:41,630
manifest things with squiggles on paper

1530
01:08:47,109 --> 01:08:44,270
if it was that easy everyone would do it

1531
01:08:48,970 --> 01:08:47,119
okay well how many times have you done

1532
01:08:51,970 --> 01:08:48,980
it how many times have you tried

1533
01:08:54,129 --> 01:08:51,980
you can't outsource everything and I

1534
01:08:56,349 --> 01:08:54,139
think the analogy that magic is like

1535
01:08:59,169 --> 01:08:56,359
chemistry is great it requires a lot of

1536
01:09:01,419 --> 01:08:59,179
setup precise calculations it's not easy

1537
01:09:03,339 --> 01:09:01,429
when you start to get into it but easy

1538
01:09:06,189 --> 01:09:03,349
shouldn't really be the question either

1539
01:09:08,410 --> 01:09:06,199
is it worth it should be the question

1540
01:09:11,229 --> 01:09:08,420
and to me it seems like it is though I

1541
01:09:13,269 --> 01:09:11,239
am still light on personal results if

1542
01:09:15,939 --> 01:09:13,279
I'm being honest but staying up-to-date

1543
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:15,949
with Empire hasn't resulted in anything

1544
01:09:22,419 --> 01:09:18,290
either so I guess the bar is pretty low

1545
01:09:24,999 --> 01:09:22,429
and if you only heard a one hour show

1546
01:09:27,309 --> 01:09:25,009
today know that the higher side chats

1547
01:09:29,019 --> 01:09:27,319
always puts out the first hour of each

1548
01:09:30,910 --> 01:09:29,029
show for free but if you want to go

1549
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:30,920
deeper sign up for the higher side chats

1550
01:09:36,269 --> 01:09:33,290
plus for just five bucks a month on our

1551
01:09:38,740 --> 01:09:36,279
website and unlock the whole shebang

1552
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:38,750
today in the plus show I asked dr.

1553
01:09:43,209 --> 01:09:41,329
Skinner about separating real dangers

1554
01:09:46,299 --> 01:09:43,219
and concerns and magic from that

1555
01:09:48,999 --> 01:09:46,309
religious propaganda John D and Edward

1556
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:49,009
Kelley's alchemical work separating

1557
01:09:54,310 --> 01:09:52,159
magic religion and the mystery tradition

1558
01:09:58,049 --> 01:09:54,320
the connection between spirits and

1559
01:10:01,839 --> 01:09:58,059
powerful art that part I love you follow

1560
01:10:05,950 --> 01:10:01,849
Jesus and in earth beans pepper I love

1561
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:05,960
to invisibility magic Fung Shui the Von

1562
01:10:09,850 --> 01:10:08,090
ik manuscript and everything you ever

1563
01:10:11,459 --> 01:10:09,860
wanted to know about magic but were

1564
01:10:13,650 --> 01:10:11,469
afraid to ask

1565
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:13,660
so join the club you get the full

1566
01:10:19,050 --> 01:10:16,210
archives lifetime access to the higher

1567
01:10:21,390 --> 01:10:19,060
side chats plus forum and occasional

1568
01:10:23,850 --> 01:10:21,400
treats that you just won't believe and

1569
01:10:25,979 --> 01:10:23,860
it's been a pretty good month last week

1570
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:25,989
was Richard Belzer a big name to be

1571
01:10:29,459 --> 01:10:27,370
getting down here in the gutter with

1572
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:29,469
little old me and something a lot of

1573
01:10:32,939 --> 01:10:31,090
people liked although there were a lot

1574
01:10:34,590 --> 01:10:32,949
of people who also notice that he does

1575
01:10:38,010 --> 01:10:34,600
seem a little stuck in the liberal

1576
01:10:40,500 --> 01:10:38,020
bubble I would agree but still fun

1577
01:10:42,660 --> 01:10:40,510
miguel conner super great romp through

1578
01:10:43,130 --> 01:10:42,670
Gnostic scholarship boom what more do

1579
01:10:45,810 --> 01:10:43,140
you want

1580
01:10:48,510 --> 01:10:45,820
recluse who I thought knew a lot about

1581
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:48,520
these six degrees of Kevin Bacon aspects

1582
01:10:53,220 --> 01:10:50,050
of the deep state and some of their

1583
01:10:55,470 --> 01:10:53,230
unsavory operations and then Isaac why

1584
01:10:58,110 --> 01:10:55,480
table who dropped some knowledge on May

1585
01:11:00,660 --> 01:10:58,120
the fourth about esoteric and occult

1586
01:11:02,970 --> 01:11:00,670
aspects of Star Wars and other media

1587
01:11:05,250 --> 01:11:02,980
staples I think we've done all right in

1588
01:11:07,380 --> 01:11:05,260
May well worth five bucks if you ask me

1589
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:07,390
and June will be no different next week

1590
01:11:11,370 --> 01:11:09,130
we're getting into reptilian bankster

1591
01:11:13,110 --> 01:11:11,380
priesthood secrets of American history

1592
01:11:15,150 --> 01:11:13,120
and instead of the same old news

1593
01:11:17,790 --> 01:11:15,160
articles about giant skeletons in early

1594
01:11:19,590 --> 01:11:17,800
America we're going deep into the

1595
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:19,600
journals and written accounts of

1596
01:11:24,990 --> 01:11:21,760
conquistadors who said they encountered

1597
01:11:27,540 --> 01:11:25,000
living giants so hell of a ride next

1598
01:11:30,510 --> 01:11:27,550
week and then the one after that is just

1599
01:11:32,370 --> 01:11:30,520
really high-level conspiracy stuff

1600
01:11:34,979 --> 01:11:32,380
that's well source that you're going to

1601
01:11:37,350 --> 01:11:34,989
love so sign up already you know this

1602
01:11:39,660 --> 01:11:37,360
show is unique enough treat yourself and

1603
01:11:42,030 --> 01:11:39,670
I'll see you next time do pick up dr.

1604
01:11:43,770 --> 01:11:42,040
Skinner's books if you want to go deeper

1605
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:43,780
find a way to let them know you

1606
01:11:47,490 --> 01:11:46,930
appreciated this interview and I've done

1607
01:11:49,770 --> 01:11:47,500
my part

1608
01:11:51,990 --> 01:11:49,780
your move oppressive overlords of the

1609
01:11:53,580 --> 01:11:52,000
timeline spirituality ciphers and

1610
01:12:02,730 --> 01:11:53,590
religious authorities guilty of the

1611
01:12:22,490 --> 01:12:03,580
[Applause]

1612
01:12:22,500 --> 01:12:25,770
ah

1613
01:12:30,780 --> 01:12:26,840
baby

1614
01:12:59,940 --> 01:12:30,790
[Music]

1615
01:12:59,950 --> 01:13:03,800
baby

1616
01:13:10,170 --> 01:13:05,780
[Applause]

1617
01:13:47,339 --> 01:13:23,570
[Music]

1618
01:13:47,349 --> 01:13:49,960
and

1619
01:14:10,860 --> 01:13:51,479
[Music]

1620
01:14:10,870 --> 01:14:15,530
[Applause]

1621
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:17,620
[Music]

1622
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:19,449
and I can't

1623
01:14:23,050 --> 01:14:33,780
Oh

1624
01:14:33,790 --> 01:14:48,899
[Music]

1625
01:14:51,290 --> 01:14:50,050
me

1626
01:15:12,560 --> 01:14:51,300
[Music]

1627
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:14,879
hey guys thanks for listening to the

1628
01:15:18,779 --> 01:15:16,449
first hour of the higher side chats

1629
01:15:20,850 --> 01:15:18,789
podcast with me Greg Carl wood if you

1630
01:15:23,219 --> 01:15:20,860
don't know there is a second hour to all

1631
01:15:24,930 --> 01:15:23,229
the episodes we do around here generally

1632
01:15:26,669 --> 01:15:24,940
we're able to get a lot deeper into the

1633
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:26,679
topics and ideas that a guest is about

1634
01:15:31,799 --> 01:15:28,690
so if you enjoyed what you've heard from

1635
01:15:34,020 --> 01:15:31,809
THC for free consider signing up at the

1636
01:15:35,969 --> 01:15:34,030
higher side chats plus com to get the

1637
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:35,979
second hour of the 5 shows I put

1638
01:15:40,199 --> 01:15:38,320
together each month I never really

1639
01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:40,209
wanted to be a paid subscriber podcast

1640
01:15:43,890 --> 01:15:41,920
but I really hate the idea of spending

1641
01:15:46,020 --> 01:15:43,900
airtime promoting some product that's

1642
01:15:47,669 --> 01:15:46,030
completely unrelated and telling you the

1643
01:15:50,430 --> 01:15:47,679
best way to support the show is to buy

1644
01:15:52,319 --> 01:15:50,440
an audio book or new underwear by mail

1645
01:15:54,660 --> 01:15:52,329
or something crazy like that so instead

1646
01:15:56,279 --> 01:15:54,670
if you like the show double your time

1647
01:15:58,379 --> 01:15:56,289
with it for five bucks a month and let's

1648
01:16:00,029 --> 01:15:58,389
cut out all the other [\h__\h] it's half the

1649
01:16:01,770 --> 01:16:00,039
price of a movie ticket and you get at

1650
01:16:04,410 --> 01:16:01,780
least an extra five hours of show a

1651
01:16:06,180 --> 01:16:04,420
month collectively it keeps us stable

1652
01:16:07,799 --> 01:16:06,190
and it frees me from wasting your time

1653
01:16:10,350 --> 01:16:07,809
with anything but the show you came to

1654
01:16:12,330 --> 01:16:10,360
listen to it's really the only way for

1655
01:16:14,129 --> 01:16:12,340
an independent one-man show to make it

1656
01:16:16,379 --> 01:16:14,139
and I do what I can so that it's worth

1657
01:16:18,330 --> 01:16:16,389
your while since we started this I've

1658
01:16:20,370 --> 01:16:18,340
always tried to use the subscriptions to

1659
01:16:22,919 --> 01:16:20,380
improve the podcast and make signups

1660
01:16:24,839 --> 01:16:22,929
more advantageous it started with just a

1661
01:16:26,850 --> 01:16:24,849
second hour for the main show but now

1662
01:16:28,949 --> 01:16:26,860
we've got a nice form going where people

1663
01:16:31,350 --> 01:16:28,959
can get deeper in conversation about the

1664
01:16:33,839 --> 01:16:31,360
episodes with other listeners submit a

1665
01:16:36,299 --> 01:16:33,849
candidate in the guest request thread or

1666
01:16:37,890 --> 01:16:36,309
share their own personal projects to get

1667
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:37,900
out of the soul-crushing nine-to-five

1668
01:16:41,910 --> 01:16:39,610
cog in the wheel life on the

1669
01:16:43,469 --> 01:16:41,920
entrepreneurs thread the forum end the

1670
01:16:45,149 --> 01:16:43,479
plus comments are always the first

1671
01:16:47,399 --> 01:16:45,159
places I try to go for listener

1672
01:16:49,799 --> 01:16:47,409
engagement but it does get harder as the

1673
01:16:51,629 --> 01:16:49,809
show gets more popular because of that

1674
01:16:53,069 --> 01:16:51,639
there's also a direct messaging feature

1675
01:16:55,919 --> 01:16:53,079
that you can use to reach me through the

1676
01:16:57,419 --> 01:16:55,929
plus site also but beyond the forum if

1677
01:16:59,729 --> 01:16:57,429
you like any of the music I've used for

1678
01:17:01,500 --> 01:16:59,739
THC most of it I've hired artists to

1679
01:17:03,810 --> 01:17:01,510
make and I provided all its free

1680
01:17:05,189 --> 01:17:03,820
downloads to plus members too so if you

1681
01:17:07,410 --> 01:17:05,199
like a particular song you've heard

1682
01:17:09,810 --> 01:17:07,420
close the show out recently come get the

1683
01:17:11,759 --> 01:17:09,820
mp3 I should also mention that if you

1684
01:17:14,100 --> 01:17:11,769
don't like the idea of paying $5

1685
01:17:16,290 --> 01:17:14,110
recurring every month I get that you can

1686
01:17:18,660 --> 01:17:16,300
buy three months six months or a year

1687
01:17:20,370 --> 01:17:18,670
upfront and just be done with it I have

1688
01:17:21,330 --> 01:17:20,380
plenty of listeners who send checks and

1689
01:17:23,670 --> 01:17:21,340
money orders to the

1690
01:17:25,590 --> 01:17:23,680
box - I try to make it as easy for

1691
01:17:27,690 --> 01:17:25,600
people as I can and you can read more

1692
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:27,700
about it on the signup page also be sure

1693
01:17:31,890 --> 01:17:30,130
to check out the FAQ help page on the

1694
01:17:33,300 --> 01:17:31,900
plus side if you have any questions or

1695
01:17:35,340 --> 01:17:33,310
concerns about how to listen to a

1696
01:17:37,230 --> 01:17:35,350
password-protected show on your devices

1697
01:17:39,540 --> 01:17:37,240
I've highlighted a lot of great

1698
01:17:41,580 --> 01:17:39,550
solutions and one of those would be the

1699
01:17:42,630 --> 01:17:41,590
iPhone app that just recently hit the

1700
01:17:45,210 --> 01:17:42,640
Apple App Store

1701
01:17:47,100 --> 01:17:45,220
a super kind and talented listener made

1702
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:47,110
it for us and you can use it to stream

1703
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:49,090
or download either the free or the plus

1704
01:17:54,570 --> 01:17:51,610
show if you're on Android I'd use pocket

1705
01:17:56,940 --> 01:17:54,580
casts or podcast addict and subscribe to

1706
01:17:59,280 --> 01:17:56,950
the feed manually that way I also try to

1707
01:18:01,230 --> 01:17:59,290
throw an occasional bonus shows or QA

1708
01:18:03,780 --> 01:18:01,240
shows and I've got a few other weird

1709
01:18:05,670 --> 01:18:03,790
ideas I might get to try out soon but I

1710
01:18:07,110 --> 01:18:05,680
give you all I can for five bucks and I

1711
01:18:09,090 --> 01:18:07,120
hope you'll at least give it a shot if

1712
01:18:10,860 --> 01:18:09,100
you've listened to a few free shows and

1713
01:18:12,630 --> 01:18:10,870
you find them unique or valuable I know

1714
01:18:14,610 --> 01:18:12,640
there's a lot of podcasts out there and

1715
01:18:16,890 --> 01:18:14,620
I'm just one of them but if you have any

1716
01:18:18,510 --> 01:18:16,900
questions concerns or comments about any

1717
01:18:20,730 --> 01:18:18,520
of this please get in touch with us at

1718
01:18:23,430 --> 01:18:20,740
the higher side chats team at gmail.com

1719
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:23,440
I also wanted to plug the higher side

1720
01:18:26,670 --> 01:18:24,850
newsletter I'm going to be putting out

1721
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:26,680
totally free for anyone who wants to

1722
01:18:31,740 --> 01:18:29,170
sign up at the main internet website for

1723
01:18:33,570 --> 01:18:31,750
the show the higher side chats comm you

1724
01:18:35,220 --> 01:18:33,580
can also get on that email list through

1725
01:18:37,440 --> 01:18:35,230
the higher side chats Facebook page

1726
01:18:38,850 --> 01:18:37,450
there's a button there as well but the

1727
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:38,860
reason I'm doing this is because I get

1728
01:18:43,380 --> 01:18:41,290
tons and tons of emails after a show

1729
01:18:45,270 --> 01:18:43,390
goes up asking me about how I feel about

1730
01:18:46,860 --> 01:18:45,280
a particular guest or topic and the

1731
01:18:48,780 --> 01:18:46,870
wrap-up isn't always the best place to

1732
01:18:50,820 --> 01:18:48,790
do that especially if I have anything

1733
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:50,830
negative to say sometimes the dust needs

1734
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:52,690
to settle sometimes they need to hear

1735
01:18:56,730 --> 01:18:55,210
feedback from you guys first there are a

1736
01:18:58,350 --> 01:18:56,740
lot of factors but I usually have

1737
01:19:00,930 --> 01:18:58,360
something to communicate to you and I

1738
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:00,940
just don't get to do it so on the 1st of

1739
01:19:02,940 --> 01:19:01,330
the month

1740
01:19:04,830 --> 01:19:02,950
I plan to send out a little newsletter

1741
01:19:06,690 --> 01:19:04,840
with my thoughts about the 5 shows the

1742
01:19:08,700 --> 01:19:06,700
previous month and talk to you about

1743
01:19:11,070 --> 01:19:08,710
anything else that's on my mind or

1744
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:11,080
that's going on and what's probably most

1745
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:12,610
enticing is that I'm going to give you

1746
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:14,650
some insight into at least one guess I

1747
01:19:18,540 --> 01:19:16,810
have coming up in the month which people

1748
01:19:20,820 --> 01:19:18,550
have been begging for some posted

1749
01:19:22,950 --> 01:19:20,830
schedule for a long time I personally

1750
01:19:24,750 --> 01:19:22,960
think I'd like to surprise but sign up

1751
01:19:26,490 --> 01:19:24,760
for the higher side newsletter it's free

1752
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:26,500
it comes out on the 1st of the month and

1753
01:19:30,870 --> 01:19:28,090
I won't waste your time with any other

1754
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:30,880
email and that's it I appreciate you

1755
01:19:34,950 --> 01:19:32,530
listening I try to give alternative

1756
01:19:37,070 --> 01:19:34,960
ideas and guests a fair shake on a hike

1757
01:19:39,660 --> 01:19:37,080
holiday podcast expose some deep level

1758
01:19:41,550 --> 01:19:39,670
conspiracies without the yelling and I

1759
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:41,560
hope to offer some inspiration that even

1760
01:19:45,209 --> 01:19:43,690
though the system relentlessly suggests

1761
01:19:47,490 --> 01:19:45,219
you should follow their blueprint to

1762
01:19:49,860 --> 01:19:47,500
mediocrity you can do your own thing and

1763
01:19:51,959 --> 01:19:49,870
live a much happier life despite all the